Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Help Me Break My Axiom Cherry

This is my first post and iam a complete axiom newb so feel free to be as harsh as possible lol....no really. In the next month or so iam looking to getting the vp150 v3, m60 v3, and qs8 v3. Now the question/concerns i have are my receiver is an ONKYO TX-NR807, how would this perform with the setup alone and potentially down the road with an xpa-3 or 5? Ive been told that Yamaha might be a better choice but iam in the less than 1k range so should i stick with what i got or can any one recommend a good receiver Yamaha or any others? Primarily HT use Thanks any input is greatly appreciated

The Onk will do a great job with the speakers you chose. You don't mention how large of a room you have.

its in my basement theres not any seperate rooms but the area for my ht is about 24'X 14'

I am sure your reciever alone could do a fine job. M60's and VP150 are easy to drive. I wouldn't say such if you were looking for the M80's and VP180.

I just bought an onkyo 3007 a couple weeks ago..and so far I have no issue with it. my room size 19 by 17 by 9 with cathedral ceiling. I got my receiver from london drugs at clearance for $1100.

You have to count all of the wall to wall area, because this is the amount of space the sound will have to fill, not just the listening area. More space means a bigger need for more speakers and more power.

Edit: This doesn't mean that I think what you are ordering is insufficient, but it's just a word of caution.

ok then my measurements of the whole basement is approx. 32'L X 32'w, also would upgrading to a xpa 3 or 5 be a good pairing with my setup or should i hold out for the m80 line?

If the 80's are, or will be within budget than absolutely go that route.

The Onkyo is rated at 135 watts/ch, so most likely you will never need additional power that you may never use or recognize anyway. The m60's or m80's do not require a lot of power to play VERY loud, so in the majority of situations a receiver of even 90-100 watts would be fine, even in your room. Keep in mind that doubling the wattage, only gains you 3dB's.

I would say buy as much power as you can comfortably afford. If you like it loud the Onk might not cut it. I would also suggest you upgrade to the M80s and VP180.

Welcome to the forum kg_ls1_z.

As long as your receiver has pre-outs you will be able to hook up an external amp. Whether or not your system will benefit with one will depend on your room size, listening distance and what speakers you are using or a combination there of.

I would recommend just starting off with the receiver first to power everything and if necessary down the road add the amp. My advice to you when first building a system is to spend as much money as possible on the speakers and subwoofer(s). Get the receiver you want to power them with and treat everything else as secondary. With a room of your size you will need a capable subwoofer, possibly even 2 would be better.

Good luck.

I agree, make sure you get a receiver with pre-outs, just in case...and another vote for the M80s if they are within your budget.

Kg, welcome. The 807 should be excellent with your Axioms and would have at least the advantage over the Yamahas of Audyssey MultEQ auto-calibration and room correction.

The available maximum power should be plenty for all Axiom models at a typical listening distance(no, a room doesn't have to be "filled" with sound at the level needed at the listening position)for safe sound levels. Enjoy.

well first of all thanks to everyone ive got some valuable information. This is by no means my first system iam currently running low end monitor line from polk which ive enjoyed just have been underwhelmed especially in dialogue wanted to upgrade to some high end equipment. so this is by far the most complex and pricey so thus all the research, i have read threads aout the m80s cause of the 4 ohm rating that my onk or the emos might not be great match for them so iam looking at the m60s.

As I said in the previous reply, your 807 should have no problem with any Axiom model(including the M80)at typical listening distances and safe listening levels. Over the majority of its effective frequency range the impedance of the M80 is significantly above 4 ohms.

If you have Emotiva amps then you may very well be better off with the M60's as many M80 owners have reported problems with the M80's tripping the protection setting. But that's only if keeping your amps is more important to you than which speakers you buy. Yes the M80's are Axioms flagship speaker, but many people prefer the sound of the M60's over them. So it really all depends on what sort of sound you're looking for.

I don't think you can go wrong either way. Good hunting, we look forward to hearing your decision & your impressions once you get your speakers. So keep us posted.

I must have missed this trend.

I don't agree at all. The M80 and M60 have the same 'sound' because they were designed using the same principles.

The differences between the two are subtle, but definately there.

I disagree with all of you. Just to be disagreeable.

Morris? Is that you??

It's Chuck Morris, the Ninja Cat.

How can you say they sound the 'same'... then in the next paragraph say there are definately differences?

I don't personally know because I've never heard M60's. I was only saying that because I've heard some on this board say they were more laid back. I still want to audition some.

I know that seems to make no sense. Like I wrote before, the differences are subtle. Well, other than the bass extension of the M80.

The overall sound is the same. As neutral speakers, neither one has a specific sound. If you listened to one on one day and the other on the next day, you would not be able to describe any differences.

I would have to find my original post here to put up the exact differences, but I can sum it up in writing that the M80 was more life like.

I agree with Fred, as someone that owned M60's for many years and now upgraded to M80's. I would say the overall sound/signature is very similar, if that makes sense. The M80's have the ability to handle more power and play louder, but that doesn't tell you there is a sound difference. The M60's can play as loud as most people would ever need, they are no slouch.

I guess the subtle differences would be a little better bass section. In my opinion this would have to do with a larger cabinet. In addition, some may find some minor improvements to overall detail, due to the addition of the extra tweeters/drivers.

I noticed a difference in the trebble. You could hear it with cymbals. Alan says there is a difference in the midrange as well. I am wondering if this is the greater bass detail I attributed to the lower bass in the M80. On paper there is only a 2 or 3 Hz difference in the 2 3db point between the two yet it sounded like a lot more.

Ok, well certainly you two would know more about the differences than I would sseeing as you've both experienced both speakers first hand. I guess I somehow got the false impression that M60's were a bit on the ' laid back' side off the scale as compared to the very detailed M80's. So my comment was intended to indicate that people who preferred the highs to roll off sooner would like the 60's over the 80's.

Perhaps I was mistaken.

I would say when comparing the m60's to the m80's, there is less of a "laid back" difference than if you were comparing the m50's to the m60's/m80's.

With those who heard the M60 and M80s, was this done in a controlled blind test? If not then most would say the opinions based on anything other than proper protocol would be discounted.

I would agree except for one thing. I went into the listening session expecting to buy the M60. I had decided ahead of time that it was the best speaker for me and, based on comments here, more than enough speaker for me.

I am hoping that Axiom will set up an M60 M80 blind listening session as next month's get together because I am curious to see how that will compare to my original notes.

Wow, Rick is starting to sound like JohnK, lol, no pun intented John, just kinda funny coming from Rick. There is a lot of valid facts about "true" blind AB tests. However, I don't agree about discounting totally what our "ears" and "brains" hear, that is what is important and how we make our decisions in real world situations. Most of us don't have anechoic chambers or real blind A/B equipment/environments.

I will say that I had my m60's on channel A, and the new m80's on channel B of my Denon at the time. I calibrated with an SPL meter, and was amazed that there was not much difference in dB, maybe 1-2 which is not recognized by our hearing. I had them in the same positions on the sides of the room with a little space between them. Yeah I know what your going to say, yada yada yada.

Anyway, I listened to a variety of music and switched quickly back and forth from A to B channels using the remote, I was using a blindfold, and had my wife pre set to one of the channels before I begain, so I didn't know which speakers I was listening to at any given moment.

Anyway, my statements still stand from above.

My understanding is that you DO have to have the levels closer than that...i.e., that difference is something you can hear.

Yeah, Mark; one of the requirements for a properly controlled blind listening test is that the overall volume levels be matched to within 0.1dB. This isn't because a difference anywhere near that small is detectable as a loudness difference, but because in tests with certain material overall differences of just a few tenths of a dB were detectable, not as loudness per se, but as "clarity", "sound-stage", etc.

In the M60/M80 case, with the M80 being a couple dB more sensitive, not matching volumes as closely as possible(among other factors)might lead to describing as a qualitative advantage what was just a quantitative difference.

Ok, so based on the info I'm now receiving, I guess in this case he should go with the M60's since there is little to no differences between the two speakers and his Emotiva amps will have no issues driving them..... right?

Somehow I can just feel that I'm still not going to be right.

Now you're right.

In my case it was not blind, but was level matched as Axiom has the ability to do that.

Yes, Mark and Sir Quack,

A 1-dB difference in loudness is the smallest increase or decrease in level that humans can subjectively perceive.

A 3-dB difference = "somewhat louder"

2 dB = "a little bit louder"

1 dB = "barely detectable" (you have to listen really closely to detect it)

5 or 6 dB = "clearly louder"

10 dB = "twice as loud"

Smaller differences in loudness JohnK has already described.

Cheers,
Alan

Aaaaahhhhh..... FINALLY!!!!!!