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#318904 - 08/17/10 06:46 PM Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice?
Eddie Parker Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 4
Hello:

Just joined the forum at the suggestion of one of the Axiom employees, and thought I'd ask a few questions.

I'm looking at piecing together a home theatre system and I'm curious what you fine people might advise.

I currently have (and ideally would like to keep, but if you suggest I should replace a component, please let me know why/what to look for):

- Sony XBR1 40' LCD TV
- Klipsch x550d sub woofer
- Klipsch synergy S-2 surround sound speakers
- Xbox 360
- Boxee PC

I'm looking to get a nice set of good sounding, good looking (and low profile!) front speakers - including center channel. I've sound-tested the Paradigm Millenia 20's, which sound quite nice, but are a bit pricey.

In the Axiom line, I've seen the VP150 v3 (specifically the in-wall/on-wall hybrid), and they look rather nice (admittedly, I'm still swayed by the look of the Paradigm - but it's all about sound at the end anyhow!).

Anyhow, I'm curious about a few things:

- Knowing full well this is an axiom board and likely to be some bias; does anyone have any pros/cons versus Paradigms, specifically the M20 or their line in general? Bias welcome, but I'd appreciate full disclosure if it's based on tests or not. smile

- Can I use the VP150's as fronts *and* a center? Or will I be losing out on some range? Are there any other speakers I should use instead; hopefully still maintaining a slim profile with the wall?

- Can anyone recommend a good receiver to go with this setup? I've had my eye on the Denon 890; but I'm unsure as to whether it will do enough of what I want.

Oh, and as a final point, I'm not really interested in 7.1 - 5.1 should be more than enough (it's a small-to-medium sized room). A 7.1 capable receiver wouldn't hurt tho; I imagine I can use the power to be used somewhere else.

If anyone is in Vancouver and wouldn't mind a sound audition, I'd appreciate it; or if someone has a setup that's low profile using Axiom, I'd love some photos so I can sell my wife on the idea. smile

Cheers, and thanks for reading this dreadfully long post. wink

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#318908 - 08/17/10 07:13 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Eddie Parker]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Welcome to the forum.

Paradigm and Axiom share a similar design philosophy and as such have a similar sound. If you like the Paradigms you most likely will like Axiom.

I would recommend the M22 and VP100 or 150 in/on walls to keep to the low profile you wish.

That Denon is a good receiver and many of us here use Denon for or avr's, yu can also look at Onkyo or Yamaha, Harmon Kardon as well. All of these companies have 7.1 capable receivers but it is up to you to buy the extra speakers if you so desire.

There are a few Axiom owners in the vancouver area, I would bet they will be around shortly, but just in case they don't drop in, head over to the Auditions thread in the hearing things forum and see who is listed in Vancouver then send them a PM(private message)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#318914 - 08/17/10 08:27 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: jakewash]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Welcome to the Axiom forums!

Just a few questions to start off.

1) What is the approximate dimensions of your room?
2) An approximate listening distance? (how far away you will be sitting)
3) How much are you willing to spend. Your budget?
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#318924 - 08/17/10 09:44 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Eddie Parker]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10634
Eddie, welcome. In looking over your post, a few thoughts come to mind: first, don't place so much emphasis on the "low profile" factor; a vertically configured speaker will generally give you better sound, and if possible should be used even for a center speaker. A relatively small Axiom speaker with excellent sound(at least "comparably good" with the Paradigm M20) is the M22.

As to the receiver, the Denon 890 would drive any of the Axiom speakers to beyond safe listening levels at typical home listening distances on the order of 10'.

On the 5.1/7.1 question, the distance behind your listening position(say at least 4' for rear speakers to form a sound field)is more significant than the room size. Note that a 7.1 channel receiver doesn't have more power supply capacity than a 5.1 channel receiver with a similar power supply; it simply can distribute that power through more channels. Most receivers these days are 7.1 or more.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#318930 - 08/17/10 10:34 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Eddie Parker]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1166
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Welcome Eddie.

Jay, Dr House and John have already got you going in the right direction and I'm pretty sure they know a heck of a lot more than me! confused However reading your post it seems you are in a very similar position to the one I was in almost 1 1/2 years ago, so I'll try to add some information for you specifically about the in/on walls.

Originally Posted By: Eddie Parker

I'm looking to get a nice set of good sounding, good looking (and low profile!) front speakers - including center channel. I've sound-tested the Paradigm Millenia 20's, which sound quite nice, but are a bit pricey.

In the Axiom line, I've seen the VP150 v3 (specifically the in-wall/on-wall hybrid), and they look rather nice (admittedly, I'm still swayed by the look of the Paradigm - but it's all about sound at the end anyhow!).


I also needed an on-wall solution and considered the Paradigm Cinema and Millenia series. I did not listen to the Millenia series too much due to price, but I am very familiar with the Signature W Series as I used them in an HT I built for my in-laws.

IMHO, the looks of the Paradigm Signatures are fantastic, but I find the sound comparable to the Axiom in/on walls - in fact I find more detail/subtlety in the Axioms. Either way you'll be relying on the subwoofer as the on-walls just won't play low enough. Yes, I may be biased towards the Axioms, but I really believe you need to get to the Signature W series to get comparable sound to the Axioms in/on wall series, but then the price differential becomes huge.

And to try and help with some of your other questions:

- it's not recommended to use 3 150's as LCR combo, the 150 is designed for center channel duty only (I also asked Axiom this), you are better off having three identical W-22's if your configuration allows it, otherwise stick with W22 and W150 combo.

Pics? Try this link to my installation, just skip through the construction pics to the semi-final install - boy do I need to update this as it looks much better now!
The top view sketch at the end shows why I needed a slim on-wall solution due to the proximity of the entrance to the left channel speaker position.

And also note that I really believe the QS8's are about the best surround speakers out there. The ADP's from Paradigm don't even come close. If you consider trying an Axiom setup, it's really worth at least checking out the QS8's if your budget can stretch to accomodate.

Anyway, hope that helps and apologies for my equally long response. grin

Cheers,





Edited by cb919 (08/17/10 10:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot to mention QS8 vs. ADP
_________________________
Dan
On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1

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#318990 - 08/18/10 11:48 AM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Eddie Parker]
Eddie Parker Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 4
Hey!

Thanks for all the great replies everyone. I'll try to answer some general questions here, as they were posed to me.

@JakeWash: Thanks for your reply. It seems like a lot of people echo your sentiments, so I think I'll be heading down the path of the 150's and 22.s Good to know my Denon choice is a sound one... I might bump up to the 990, seeing as how I found one for 899$.

@DrHouse: I'll see if I can answer your questions. I've also taken the time to sketch a crummy lay out of the room, which leads me to a new question I'll ask after. But first, answers:

1) First off, the room is a joint living room, dining room, and opens into a kitchen with a bar. So the dimension I have allocated for the 'living room' is approximately 13 ft x 13 ft.

2) The 'ideal' listening distance (comfiest couch facing the TV) will be 10 feet exactly.

3) I don't have a true 'budget' - it's mostly what doesn't make the wife cringe too much. That number apparently is around 1200$ for the remaining three speakers. I'm trying to convince her that 900$ for the receiver is a good deal. So thereabouts. wink

I'll see if I can post the layout of my room and the questions pertaining to it after I answer the remaining replies.

@JohnK: I'm not sure what you mean by a 'vertically configured speaker'. Do you mean a floor-standing speaker? Or merely an on-wall mounted bookshelf?

I could possibly get away with the on-wall bookshelf speaker (although it would seriously detract from the aesthetics), but sadly the wife has vetoed floorstanding, if that's what you mean. We're going to have a kid running around here soon (child, not goat) and she wants minimum clutter on the floor.

If you mean on-wall, are they really that much superior to in-wall/on-wall hybrids? My understanding is that the sound is much the same.

@cb919: Thank you for your honest and frank opinion. I also am grateful for your mentioning of the use of the 22's versus the 150's - not only cheaper, but if it complements the sound better, that's a great sell as well.

Your photos are fantastic - that's exactly what I needed to see. The only thing I was wondering - if it's not too much to ask - would it be possible to take a profile show of your system? I'd love to see how flush your speakers/TV are to your wall since the profile of these speakers will be highly visible in my configuration.


Alright, here's the layout of my room... Letsee if I can get this image upload sorted:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

So that's the layout of the room. I've left the left side 'open' as that's the dining room which is immediately adjacent to an open kitchen. The entire length of the room in that direction is likely about 30ft or so, with a stand-up bar between the kitchen and the dining room, if that matters.

Unfortunately the area doesn't lend itself to being laid out symmetrically - Vancouverites are tight on space, donchaknow - hence the odd layout. The two floating hollow rectangles are couches, and the area behind the bottom couch is our entry way, hence the odd shape.

The three black squares are the current speakers I own and am thinking about using. I'm currently dubious as to whether the surround speakers are laid out in an appropriate manner, or if I should have them somehow attempt to face the couches more directly. Any guidance there would be appreciated.

Also, is having my subwoofer next to the couch a big deal? On one hand I hear that subs are omnidirectional so it should be fine, on the other I've heard that the ideal location of the subwoofer is near the front speakers. Advice would be welcome.

Anyhow, let me know if there are any further questions or suggestions - thanks for taking the time!

-e-

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#318998 - 08/18/10 12:25 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Eddie Parker]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Here's a link to a page that has some pictures of the on-walls. Scroll down to see them. The shots are somewhat of an angle.

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#319001 - 08/18/10 12:46 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: CatBrat]
Kruncher Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 484
Loc: Maple Ridge, BC
Hi Eddie,

I'm out in Maple Ridge (it's really not that far, I commute most every day) and while I wish I had Axioms all around, I'm not there yet.

What I do have is a mix of two M22s and Paradigm centre, two surrounds, and one sub. I bought the M22s a couple of years ago and the Paradigm stuff is mid '90s era. All connected to an Onkyo 706.

I've read that the W22s and M22s sound very similar.

PM me if you're interested in coming out for a look and listen.

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#319032 - 08/18/10 05:06 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: Kruncher]
Nashvegas Rocks Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 92
Loc: Nashville TN
My advice is to take advantage of their in home listening policy and order both the on wall and M22 bookshelf speakers along with both the vp100 and vp150 to see which setup works best for you and send the others back. It will cost Axiom money to ship back the unwanted speakers but I feel once you get them in your home you will be one happy camper. Personally i have heard on wall speakers and am not a fan, with the m22's being ported i see too much functionality of being a bookshelf. The above posters are WAY more educated on this topic but i wanted to offer my .02
_________________________
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2

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#319034 - 08/18/10 05:19 PM Re: Newbie: Low Profile Home Theatre Speaker Advice? [Re: JohnK]
Nashvegas Rocks Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 92
Loc: Nashville TN
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Eddie, welcome. In looking over your post, a few thoughts come to mind: first, don't place so much emphasis on the "low profile" factor; a vertically configured speaker will generally give you better sound, and if possible should be used even for a center speaker. A relatively small Axiom speaker with excellent sound(at least "comparably good" with the Paradigm M20) is the M22.

As to the receiver, the Denon 890 would drive any of the Axiom speakers to beyond safe listening levels at typical home listening distances on the order of 10'.

On the 5.1/7.1 question, the distance behind your listening position(say at least 4' for rear speakers to form a sound field)is more significant than the room size. Note that a 7.1 channel receiver doesn't have more power supply capacity than a 5.1 channel receiver with a similar power supply; it simply can distribute that power through more channels. Most receivers these days are 7.1 or more.




BTW Congrats on the 8,000th post. Maybe you can get a whole new set up for free ;-)
_________________________
M22's
VP100
QS4's
SVS PB12-NSD
Denon 2310CI
Panasonic P58S2
Panasonic P50S2

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