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#319078 - 08/18/10 11:31 PM Power
AndrewSW Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 46
I've been looking for the last few days on what I should use to power my speakers and I'm having a bit of information overload.

I'm going to have IWOW M22's, IWOW VP150, 4 QS8's, an EP500, and an EP800. I will have a Xbox, PS3, cable or satelite box.

I'm trying to decide if I should go with something like the Denon 2311, or something like an Emotiva 7 channel amp and a different processor. I have been into HT for a number of years, but I am definitely a novice when it comes to receivers and separates.

What would you guys use with a setup like this and why? If there's other things I should consider, please fill me in.

Thanks!
Andrew
_________________________
Harman/Kardon DPR-2005 | SVS PB12-ISD | M22s | QS4s | M2s | VP-150

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#319080 - 08/18/10 11:45 PM Re: Power [Re: AndrewSW]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
How big is your room, how far will you be sitting from your speakers during normal listening and how loud do you listen?
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#319081 - 08/18/10 11:49 PM Re: Power [Re: AndrewSW]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13572
Loc: Iowa
Something that might help you understand is looking at the "SPL In Room 1watt/1meter" spec for each speaker. This will tell you basically how "loud" in dB's that speaker will play from 1 meter distance when driven by 1 (one) watt. The subs have their own amplifier so they don't matter in your decision.

IWOW M22 92dB's
IWOW VP150 95dB's
Qs8's 95dB's

No, you don't sit 1 meter away from your speakers, but this gives you an idea that your speakers will play very loud, when only driven by 1 watt. As you double your power, you gain 3dB's in loudness. Also I believe for every 6ft away from a speaker you lose 3dB, or something like that...

1 watt 95dB
3 watts 98dB
6 watts 101dB
12 watts 104dB
24 watts 107dB
48 watts 110dB
96 watts 113dB (and I am only figuring one speaker)

If you consider how loud most people listen to music on average, a 100-130 watt receiver is more than capable. I most situations your only going to be using 1-3 watts, with maybe some brief jumps upto maybe 100 watts needed. All well within most receivers capabilities.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB



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#319082 - 08/19/10 12:05 AM Re: Power [Re: AndrewSW]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10631
Andrew, the same answer always applies: it depends on how loud the level at your listening position is and how wide the dynamic range of the program material is(some almost uniformly loud pop material has a range near zero).

The 2311 or similar can easily drive your Axioms to beyond a safe listening level at typical home listening distances and have adequate capacity for brief peaks on the most dynamic classical and other material. Unused headroom is simply that: unused.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#319107 - 08/19/10 10:45 AM Re: Power [Re: JohnK]
AndrewSW Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 46
So if I'm listening at a normal level, I shouldn't be able to tell a difference between a good receiver and separate amp, correct?

I've just seen some posts out there they say you'll hear more detail when using separates, and I didn't know if anyone hear has tested that.
_________________________
Harman/Kardon DPR-2005 | SVS PB12-ISD | M22s | QS4s | M2s | VP-150

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#319111 - 08/19/10 11:12 AM Re: Power [Re: AndrewSW]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6098
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
You just used the most dangerous word in audio - "normal" wink

If you walk around with an SPL meter and ask 10 people to play their system at a "normal" volume, then work back from SPL to determine how much power they need, the variation in numbers is going to be frightening.

It's probably fair to say that between a receiver and separates of comparable power/price/whatever you probably won't hear much difference. Going with separates used to let you sometimes assemble a combination of "best value" components that could deliver more performance for a given investment than a comparably priced receiver or integrated amp, but I don't think that has really been the case for a decade or two.

On the other hand, if your idea of "normal" is on the loud side and you go from a receiver (typically maxing out at 100WPC or so) to separates (typically *starting* at 100WPC or so) *and* in the process go from a receiver whose amp is operating near its power limits to a "big honkin' amp" that is loafing along with tons of headroom then there's a good chance that you *will* hear more detail...

... but there's also a good chance that you will spend a lot more money in the process.


Edited by bridgman (08/19/10 11:16 AM)
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, PC-Plus 20-39, EP500v3
2 pr M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti, M3v4, VP100
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#319113 - 08/19/10 11:18 AM Re: Power [Re: bridgman]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6888
Loc: It's all about the location.
In a very large room(4000cf +), I think separates might be usefull esp if you like it LOUD!!
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#319114 - 08/19/10 11:31 AM Re: Power [Re: Adrian]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6098
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Yep... I guess it's fair to say that you should first figure out how much power and features you need, and *then* look at your options for obtaining that power.

Within the power limits of typical receivers I expect a good receiver will be the most cost-effective way to get the performance you need, but if you find that your power requirements are higher than what a typical receiver can provide then you probably need to look at offloading some or all of the channels to a separate, higher power amp.
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, PC-Plus 20-39, EP500v3
2 pr M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti, M3v4, VP100
UDP-203 smile

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#319160 - 08/19/10 04:00 PM Re: Power [Re: bridgman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I had a chance to run Axioms massively powered A1400-8(denon 3808 as pre/pro) against my Denon 3808 alone and I wouldn't say there was a huge difference but I did notice better bass levels at all listening volumes but other than that not alot of difference. The highs were a bit more open and everything was cleaner/crisper at higher volume levels. It is a case of diminishing returns.

You can find cheaper amps like the Emotiva but the pre/pro's are anything but cheap. I would suggest getting the avr of your choice and ensure it has preamp outs for all channels this way if you find the avr alone is lacking you can buy separate amps as you see fit and funds will allow and make use of the avr as the pre/pro.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#319173 - 08/19/10 05:21 PM Re: Power [Re: jakewash]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 738
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
As stated here a separates really only give you more power than a receiver can provide. The question is how much power do you need or want. Only you can answer that one.
However I think the rational for separates is it also adds flexibility. A good amp is a good amp, and if it has sufficient power it isn’t something you need to upgrade.
I think the initial advantage for separates is that you could upgrade your pre/pro as needed as new technologies come to market with out having to change your amp thus saving you money. However when one looks at the price of pre/pro’s on the market you will quickly learn that if you can manage with a receiver, it is much more cost effective than moving to separates.
I have a Rotel RSP1066 right now that is about 8 years old and it is time to upgrade, and I am stunned at the price of a new pre/pro. I could by an excellent high power receiver for less then the price of an entry level pre/pro.
My advice from someone who has separates, unless you need enormous amounts of power, get a good receiver and don’t look back.
paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Epson 3020
Rotel RB-880
Denon AVR-990

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