Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom Mount failed, ruined large screen!

Yeah so I a center channel.....scratch that, I had a center channel mounted above my 115" Draper M2500 screen. It was mounted with a Axiom mount. Today it fell, hitting my screen on the way down, tearing it enough to ruin it.

Technically, the mount never failed. The mount is as solid in the wall as it was on day one. I double studded wall in center for the speaker to mount to. What actually happened, as you can see from the speaker pics, is the hole in which the mount attaches too, the little metal screw attachment pulled itself out of the speaker, ruining the speaker - never to be mountable again. So learn from my misfortune. Mount speaker below screen, and use something besides Axiom's mount to do it.

Sorry to hear about that. It seems like an easy fix on Axiom's part. There are 4 holes already on the mount around one in the center, on the bracket. If Axiom simply put 2 to 4 corresponding bolts on each speaker then everything wouldn't be counting on that one bolt holding the speaker up.

This is kind of the same problem as when people mount porch swings. They thread an eye bolt straight into a ceiling joist on each side and that's it. If one of those bolts fails then everything comes crashing down.

OMG! That is horrible to see.

Your best bet is probably to call Axiom. I have no idea what can be done about the screen but hopefully your speaker can be replaced under warranty.

Now I feel justified in questioning the strength of the material used in the speaker cabinets. It could also have been overtightened.

maybe the screw was to tight going into the speaker.

After studying the picture of the mount on the wall, isn't the part that belongs in the speaker backwards? It looks like the little spikes were helping the speaker to separate from the bracket, instead of the other way around.

The threaded insert was probably inserted into the MDF from the inside of the speaker cabinet at the factory and the spikes are more than likely pointed in that direction to help with ease of installation ... I would imagine there was a larger head on the threaded insert that was used to help hold the insert in place with an indention in the MDF inside of the cabinet for the head. Looks to me like maybe the head broke loose from the rest of the insert.

Only my guess.


Dang Newf it's great to see you again ... it's been forever and I'm sorry to hear about the issue here.

Let us know what axiom says after you give them a call

Yea and be sure to give us a review of the new VP180.

Wow, that sucks. Is the screen covered by contents insurance? I'm sure Axiom will take care of the speaker.

I'm a little surprised there is only one mounting point on the center.

and as usual, the timing of this is not good. I won't get into it but yeah, this sucks.

I think you might be right. There is something inside my speaker rattling loose now. I need to take back off see what it is.

I always felt that a threaded insert on an almost 22lb speaker (Is that a VP150?) was right at the limit. I am very sorry for your misfortune. As other have said, I would try home insurance....

I using the steel bracket for my q4's but nowhere does it state any weight restriction...are there any?

it's a vp150 and bracket says 40lbs

Problem is two things. MDF is too weak, little screw thingy is too small, and there really needs to be two mounting points

This is unfortunate and definately the first time someone has had such an issue since I've been on the forums. I'm sure that Axiom did lots of testing many years ago to design the bracket/inserts and test the capacity. MDF actually is totall fine for this application and used by most speaker manufacturers. Still, I would be interested to see what they tell you, have you contacted them yet?

When I mounted my VP150 over my screen, I did not trust the single attachment point. I ended up building a bracket out of red oak the width of the speaker. It is secured to the VP with the single threaded speaker insert. The mount is then attached to my wall with two Axiom metal brackets. No, I don’t have a picture to post, but can later if anyone wants. In short, there was no way I was going to trust that single mounting point without additional support.

I'm with you Michael, seems to me that mounting a speaker of this size from a single point with a medium size bolt is asking a lot. My instinct tells me that weight needs to be distributed over a larger area.

if there were two mounting points, all other issues would be irrelevant as the weight would distributed better. The irony of this happening now is that I had someone come to the house to hear my setup weekend, someone interested in Axiom that I bumped into one day, anyways we were talking about the center channel being where it was and all. In my setup you just do not hear the vp 150 very well when it was below screen, hence putting it above, but I said it hasn't moved since day one and ....poof now this.

I love my setup, I mean I love it and brag to others about axiom constantly. That being said I always had a concern about that center channel up high but could not avoid it. I always said that if there was a weak point in my setup in my setup, it wa that the center channel was not up to snuff with the surrounds. Guess I was wrong, the weak poimt was the 50cent insert holding th espeaker to the bracket. Oh well, stuff happens - there wasn't a mark on my speakers until today.

I don’t think two mounting points alone would be enough as Rick says they need to be spread out over a larger area or you still end up with to much torque.


Full disclosure the reason I got M2s to use as wide speakers was because I plan to use those mounting brackets to hang my wides on the walls. No way was I trusting those brackets to hold my M22s despite what the specs say.

Funny... I asked a question to management here about this exact same thing just 4 days and got a responce. I asked since my vp150 must be a version 1 with NO set screw in back, I asked what wouldbe the best way to mount this above my tv on the wall. The responce back was to use the mounting bracket as it was designed to be used with the center screw on v2 and v3, but also designed for v1 without the screw by using 4 1/2 inch wood screws in the holes surrounding the center hole. ( see picture attached earlier in this thread ) So, 4 screws holding the bracket on the speaker in a circular design over a 2 or 3 inch area. I think I'll give this a try.... OR.... glue/screw a back wood plate on the back of the speaker secured by 6 or 8 screws, THEN use the bracket and its 4 mounting holes using 1 inch screws (since the back plate Ill put on will be 1/2 thick. The stress will be spread out and managed by 1 inch of mounting material, instead of 1/2 inch. Makes sence?????

That sounds like a very good plan (with the extra material glued and screwed to the back).

The bracket seems plenty strong, the weak point is the single screw insert in the speaker so you are definitely getting around that.

I didn't know there was a 180. It looks nice, I still do not like the new all white center cones. But if they had this when I ordered my setup I think I would have returned the 150 for it. The 150 is a little weak for vocals. Sadly the funds aren't there to do it right now, and I have to replace screen. Luckily the screen is only material and not a 2000.00 fixed screen.

as for if I have talked to Axiom, I left message, not sure if they'll do anything, I am one month passed my 5 yr warranty - of course. Besides if they do contact me for the sake of professionalism that discussion is not mean for the internet and I'll keep it between us

Newf, afaik, you can request the black dust caps to match your other speakers(confirm with Axiom).

Hello Newf,

I'm sorry that you had this accident so please call Axiom and we'll fix you up, however, in defense of the Axiom Full Metal Bracket (FMB), from your photos and our tests at the plant, there is no question the failure resulted from your over-tightening the center bolt when you attached the center to the FMB. We do have a large warning about it in the FMB instructions( http://www.axiomaudio.com/manual_fmb.html). In the ten years of my being with Axiom, we have had only one other failure of the FMB and it was caused by the owner over-torquing the bolt.

If you over-tighten the bolt eventually something has to give. In your case the collar part of the T-nut that creates the sandwich between the inside and outside of the cabinet wall has separated completely from the rest of the T-nut. Normally you would feel it getting very tight and then get loose again as you pulled the remaining part of the T-nut through the hole and then it would get tight again as the remains of the T-nut came in contact with the FMB.

Give us a call at the toll-free number.

Regards,

Alan

Nice to see some people still have class.

Newf,

In the pictures you included, it appears that you mounted the FMB upside down (Or in the reversed orientation as they are shown here http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalbracket.html). Did the FMB hold your VP150 in place for 5 years?

I only ask because I am about to place an Axiom order. I need a wall mount for my requirements, but would not have been able to mount with the FMB unless I flip it downwards (as it appears you did). I asked Axiom and they said "upright only" as it appears on the website. I am thinking I could flip the bracket upside down like you did as my application would be for M2's which are roughly half the weight of the VP150.

Hope your repairs go well.

regards,
Bill

Good observation...I for one didn't notice... I guess what's done is done....I only hope both sides come away happy.

bill p,

As the FMB is cast alum held together with threaded bolts, I always felt that it could be used like this.

I am stuck on the fence about getting sturdy little bracket of Full Metal Bracket..

Obviously this is after the fact....but installation in reverse order would certainly put more strain on that screw. In this case who knows if that made difference considering the lenght of time it held that cc in place.

Wow, Alan I was right about pulling the insert through the MDF.

billy p,

When I spoke to the guys at Axiom, their main concern was the load placed on the bolt that combines the bracket attached to the back of the speaker to the mount itself (step 5 in FMB instructions).

I can't see how the threaded insert to mount connection is under more stress if you use the mount in reverse. I may have to order two FMB and a set of Sturdy Little Brackets to see what works best (unless an Axiom pro can add anything to this thread).

the mount can be used either way, Axiom's own picturesnshow it both ways.

The mount did indeed hold the speaker for all the time. So if it was overtightened, it took quite some time before falling

Alan I appreciate the info, one of your staff -brent emailed me today. Sadly my job consumed the entire day and I could not respond.

I have to rethink my setup, no center channel is going back on top, but it sounds miserable below. I wonder if the 180 would better, but first I need to fix screen.

Congratulations, sirquack. Have a cigar.

Naaa, don't know anybody that just had a baby or got married, I will settle for a Chocolate Stout.

Regarding overtightening of the mount-to-speaker bolt- when I mounted my qs8's with the FMB's, the speaker kept wanting to rotate in relation to the mount and I found myself torquing that bolt more than I would have liked in order to get the speaker to stay put. I hereby suggest some "teeth" or friction surface of some kind where the mount mates with the speaker. Perhaps a rubber pad. I feel that would give a more secure (feeling at least) connection with less torque on that bolt.

Sirquack,

Chocolate Stout is my #1 choice as well. Ever tried this?:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/youngs-double-chocolate-stout/139/

[quote=newf]the mount can be used either way, Axiom's own picturesnshow it both ways.

Newf,

I looked for this on the Axiom site but am unable to find. Can you URL me?

I plan to make some for my next 5 gallon batch from Northern Brewer.

You know something, I can't find it either now. But I did see one years back and it's how I got the idea. Regardless, there is nothing anywhere indicating that there is an "up" or "down"

My only intention by this post was for others to learn from my incident. Double up the bracket in the center or at least keep it low. If Axiom steps up and does something, fine, but I am technically out of warranty by a month. Am I disappointed, yes, was I pissed off, sure I was, these are my babies, heck everyone in the family knows to call the M80's the "twins". But it is what it is and that's that. Outside of that obvious damage to the back of speaker, there is not a mark on it otherwise. Benefit to carpet. My screen however is a 400.00 bill. Anyone that remembers me from way back might remember that my health took a dive sometime back and has not really improved. Sob story aside, I a have learned what is really worth stressing over...and it's my home theater....just kidding.

Anyways, my email is steves@nf.sympatico.ca if anyone needs it.

So, took a look at my situation a little close this weekend. That is after I reinstalled everything on my #$%@#$ PC because my hard drive crashed too....lovely week I'm having

Speaker as I stated was not damaged when it hit carpet floor. Amazing. The only thing that is really wrong with speaker is when that metal insert pulled itself through, it pulled some of the wood and veneer out and warped it. See earlier pics.

Screen is screwed. Nothing I can do there but replace it and swallow the bill.

However, since I had to take a speaker out of cabinet to get at the piece that was loose inside anyways, once I had it open I got an idea. By placing a thicker bolt through the mount hole, then using a nut and bolt combo to attached to full metal bracket, I think I'll have an even stronger mounting point.







See above the 10 cent piece of crap that failed. It amazes me really that it lasted near 5 years given how small and weak it is.

So, I am going to mount speaker back to where it was above screen. Afterall, as I said, the actual mount did not fail, it was the 10 cent piece of metal holding it to the speaker that caused all this damage. The mount is solid enough that I can do chin ups on it. I mounted it originally with larger screws and to double studs, so that is not a weak point. As long as the thicker bolt holds, and the 3 large washers inside the speaker I used, I should be good.

So, bottom line, speaker should be salvaged. I haven't turned it on since the fall but I suspect it's ok.

Next step save some money, find a screen again...oh joy.

I just realized something though, I have not turned speaker on or mounted it yet, it's late here now, it should be fine and all, but I may have screwed myself by fixing it, if it's fixed. I was never happy with the 150, it just doesn't go well with the m80's, it's too quiet or something...this could have been a great excuse to get the 180. I honestly had no idea there was a 180 until I came back here this week....I should have stayed away.

Good Idea throwing the larger bolt in there. By the looks of the picture inside, Im thinking you could have gone with a larger washer though. You know, spread out the love so to say. I might do this with my speaker and sleep better at night.

+1

Go buy a "fender" washer - typically for a 1/4" diameter bolt, the washer OD will be 1" to 1-1/4" and should make it much harder to pull through.

Scott

Newf,

I am looking bact at your second post on this thread (319168). How much vertical distance is there from the bottom of the wall portion of the FMB to the centre threaded insert on the FMB?

I am about to take the plunge with my order, and need to know if I opt for the FMB or the sturdy little bracket.... Thanks in advance.

Your re-fit looks good. Hope you find a good deal on a screen...

sorry man, I never got the message until today, do you still need. I think it's about 4", but I'm not home right now and can't tell.

As to those saying it was over tightened...simply put, no. I'm not new at audio/video stuff and installed it for years pro. I was a DJ at the age of 12, yes 12. And spent a lifetime around audio. I do not overtighten things. This thing simply failed.

just an update, my modification to the fmb seems to have worked well, very sturdy now. Highly recommend people do it and not repeat my luck.

Contacting Axiom was a little disappointing. I think an issue like this should be taken more seriously. When a speaker of this size falls it is no laughing matter. Their mount is flawed and mounting point too weak for this weight. I was lucky, room was empty, but if this had fallen on a child, my dog etc.....this would have been much more serious thread.

Best of luck to all.

Newf... dont mean to be a bother here.. but you mentioned contacting Axiom was "dissapointing"? Did I not read a few threads back that they told you to contact them and they would fix the problem? Would you care to share what is "dissapointing" about this offer? As with EVERY product ever made.. some break. Forest Gump said it best.. " Shit Happens ". You just happened to be that person with the "lemon" of a part that failed. However, I do also think that a single small connecting point to hold a 25lb item at an undesireable angle could (not should ) have been designed with a larger stronger bolt and holding bracket inside the speaker. Just my 2cents though. As the Axiom rep stated though... Only 2 failures in all that they have sold is an exceptional record for any manufacturer.

Sorry to hear Newf. I was never that happy with my FMB holding my VP150 either.

The FMB came up in a discussion Saturday at Axiom and Ian mentioned that the oval holes (below) on the FMB are to put in a wood screw or two to prevent the speaker from slipping/rotating. I kind of thought about it at the time but didn't want to screw into my speaker....especially when not ported haha

Ian mentioned that the documentation needs to be updated...

Update on this.

Speaker is still solid with my little modification, I could probably swing from it now.

As for my screen, my woman, mother and even step mother tried to surprise me with a new screen for Xmas. Wonderful idea but as you can all imagine, how were they supposed to know what to buy? So basically the surprise turned into them telling me to order it...lol. Gotta love em

But, my beloved screen material isn't made anymore. The m2500 I have is a 2+ gain with excellent viewing angle. Draper changed the formula some time ago and now it's a completely different screen. Lesser gain and crazy sparkles = no good. I got the new samples and nothing comes close to the viewing angle and color my old 2500 gives.

Anyway, I am going with the dalite high power, even though it's viewing angle sorta sucks and does't work so well with a ceiling mount but it's the closest thing to what I had. At the end of all this, the new screen costs 900 bucks, cheapest fixed frame I could get, and I have to move my projector, which means tearing up ceiling, getting more cables as mine won't reach new spot, and I'll have to redo the risers under my couches because they are too low for the sweet spot for the draper

Bottom line.....wish I had never used this fmb to mount above my screen. It would have been cheaper and easier if the screen was fine and speaker got beat up. I would hate to see my beloved Axiom's get beat up, but it's true....center channel would not have cost near as much time or money.

Some thing to think about if you are planning center channel above screen.

Any who, screen will be ordered soon, just waiting on one more sample to arrive.

Merry Xmas to all members and Axiom too