Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
#320000 08/25/10 10:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
Murph Offline OP
axiomite
OP Offline
axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
Ok, maybe more chemistry than phsysics but for some unexplainable reason it fills me with some odd sense of satisfaction when scientists realize that we know less than we thought instead of more than we thought.

I'm not sure why I feel like this. I think perhaps it is because it allows us to return to a state of imaginative exploration of the endless possibilities that the future holds. Certainly it's not a subconscious vengegeful reaction against my old smug physics teacher who didn't appreciate when I challenged him on theory vs. fact. But then again, it could be a little bit of A and a little bit of B. wink

In any case, I am refering to this article.

Is the Sun Emitting a Mysterious New Particle? ...aka... So much for the "constants" they beat into our heads in school ...aka... so much for carbon dating.


With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
Murph #320013 08/25/10 11:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
I'm still with the electric universe people on this one. No new particle is needed, nor unexplained effects of neutrinos. Physics just need to realize that electrical fields play a much larger role in the universe than currently thought by most.

And this is definitely physics, the whole matter can not be created nor destroyed by ordinary, chemical means. This deals with the destruction of matter.

Carbon dating isn't going to be thrown off. It has always dealt with averages over time. Over time the fluctuations will average out...

...unless there were huge electrical upheavals in our solar system. Like maybe the birth of Venus, and it's and Mars's close encounters with Earth, causing huge electrical discharges which vaporized land mass, like the Grand Canyon.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let the majority physicists accept electric universe theory before we get into the actual explanation for many of the world's shared myths.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
Murph #320015 08/25/10 11:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
Whoa, too cool. I have worked with radiation for a living for my whole professional life, this really is amazing and makes me wonder how all of those text books and classes I've learned from could have missed this. Is this a new phenomenon? Why has this not been noted since of all of our radiation studies after Marie Curie? Thanks for posting that Murph! I have many people to pass this link onto. Please tell me it's not a hoax!!!


Dan
On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
cb919 #320019 08/26/10 12:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
I've seen a couple reports of it. Not a hoax as far as I can tell. The reason it wasn't noticed before, is because it is such a small effect (thus the affect on radiocarbon dating is also small). It is just now that the detectors are good enough that it has been noticed. Also the solar activity minimum allowed for a prolonged period of time in which to make these observations.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
ClubNeon #320032 08/26/10 03:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
It's not the direct relation to the sun that really made me wonder why it wasn't noticed before, it was this statement:

'...Experimental error and environmental conditions have all been ruled out -- the decay rates are changing throughout the year in a predictable pattern....'


If decay rates have been varying in predictable patterns for all these years why are we just noticing it now? Decay rates have been measured ad nauseum for all kinds of elements over the years - I'd think a change like this would have been noticed before now. Again, unless this is a relatively new behaviour so could not have been observed before now.


Dan
On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
cb919 #320037 08/26/10 05:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
Sure decay rates have been measured often, but with different sized samples, with differing levels of purity. When someone says the half-life of Cesium-137 is 30.1 years, that's because all the measurements over the years which have been taken averaged together to predict that rate.

This new experiment wasn't about the half life at all, but the variance between individual atoms decaying. They were paying very close attention to how random or not the release rate of particles was. When another mathematician repeated the experiment he found a small, but consistent change in the rate.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
ClubNeon #320062 08/26/10 01:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 1
Got it, thanks - I was thinking on too macroscopic a level.


Dan
On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
Murph #320163 08/27/10 02:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted By: Murph
Ok, maybe more chemistry than phsysics but for some unexplainable reason it fills me with some odd sense of satisfaction when scientists realize that we know less than we thought instead of more than we thought.

I'm not sure why I feel like this. I think perhaps it is because it allows us to return to a state of imaginative exploration of the endless possibilities that the future holds. Certainly it's not a subconscious vengegeful reaction against my old smug physics teacher who didn't appreciate when I challenged him on theory vs. fact. But then again, it could be a little bit of A and a little bit of B. wink



As a chemist, I can attest to the many times I thought I knew what I was doing, only to find out I didn't know $#!t.
The one thing I have learned over the years is that there is always more to know, more to learn, and thus, more to apply... so we can find out what else we don't know - that we were sure we did five minutes earlier.

Sounds like a circular argument, eh?

Scott


Scott

My HT
Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
a401classic #320172 08/27/10 02:58 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Okay, since I have a B.S. in Chemistry too, for my undergraduate degree, I was moved to read the articles. The first thought is that of course correlation doesn't prove causation. Also, the researcher who observed the variances at night when the sun was on the opposite side of the earth proposes that neutrinos, which zip through the whole mass of the earth like it wasn't there, fit the pattern. Rather than the neutrinos which traversed the entire earth without an interaction suddenly being able to affect a radioactive material on the opposite surface, it seems to cast some doubt that the sun was the source of the anomalies.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: I love when the laws of physics are wrong.
JohnK #320179 08/27/10 05:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
When it is said that neutrinos don't interact with matter, it means, that neutrinos don't usually strike other atomic particles. But there are neutrino detectors set up to find those very rare occasions when collisions do occur, because interesting things seem to happen.

The moon doesn't touch the Earth, but it has an effect on tides. What if a neutrino passing near an unstable nucleus causes it break down faster?

To be sure, I'm not convinced either. But definitely want to see more, controlled testing.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 386 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4