Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater which TV would you get

I got a TV but think I made the wrong choice after seeing some on display yesterday.

1) Samsung Plasma 50c550 $1000 60hrz refresh
2) Samsung LCD 46c610 $1100 120 refresh rate

TV will be viewed for both satelitte tv and movies. TV will be downstairs BUT the room has large windows facing west so will get alot of sun.

I seen LOTRings on the LCD Samsung yesterday on Blueray. I was blown away at how clear some scenes were. Almost like it was filmed in vidio like Trailer Park Boys or the LIttles Hobo canadian tv. Im fearfull that the plasma will NOT be as clear with the 60hrz refreshrate compared to the LCD with the 120. Since alot of viewing will be regular satellite at 720 I think the Plasma will not be as clear as one that was on display that had just regular sateliite. LED is too expensive so thats out of the question. Which would you choose and for what reasons? Is there a good 50in LCD that will not break the bank?

ps... I have NOT seen blureay movies on the 50in plasma... maybe Im jumpiong to conclusions.

I like Samsung, too -- my last 3 TVs have been Samsung plasmas.

You don't need to be worried about plasmas being less clear than LCDs because of a lower refresh rate. The TV signal itself is 60Hz. There may be advantages to the TV having higher rates, but I don't see how that could improve resolution. Some plasmas advertise high refresh rates, too. (My Samsung pn58c8000 has 96Hz framerate for 1080p blu-ray, and 600Hz "subfield" refresh for all signals.)

Most satellite HD signals are at 1080i -- only a few are at 720p.

On a 120 Hz LCD display, half of the information is "interpolated" to fill in an artificial frame in between each real frame by a chip in the TV, that's why they look like a documentary or something. As was mentioned, the signal is currently 60 Hz.

Lots of people like that look. I prefer a plasma as it remains more true to the source, higher contrast ratio, faster response, etc. Per inch of display, they are also considerably more affordable.

Bruce, you may indeed be jumping to conclusions; the Samsung 50" plasmas are excellent. Those higher refresh rates are applied only to LCD sets in an effort to reduce motion blur. The effectiveness for that purpose in real world viewing is questionable. In any case, plasma sets aren't subject to this motion blur and therefore simply operate at the standard 60Hz rate of the incoming signals.

Plasma all the way for the win...just a great true to life picture!!!

I went through the same debate myself recently. I don't do any gaming, but movies, HDTV and sports are what I watch. I looked at TV's for the picture quality of what I liked, and didn't pay attention to the technology, as they all have their pro's and con's.

I ended up with a Sony 60EX500, which is an LCD. To me, for the money and picture quality, that set just had the picture I liked best. Very low reflection and nice bright, natural looking colors. I thought Plasma and LED seems a bit too bright and in your face. TV's are much like speakers, it's all personal preference, which is why most here like Axiom over the various other speakers out there.

I agree it's all a matter of choice, personally I think the plasmas have better pq, particularly when I bought mine several years ago. Now the newer LCD's I would say are pretty comparable. A couple advantages of the LCD are that they use less power and generate less heat.

Ok... lets say I stick with Plasma. Is there any advantage from one model to other that is an option a person SHOULD have? Lets compare the one I mentioned above, the Samsung 50C550 for $1000. Compare it to the Panasonic TCP50S2 for $250 more. Panny stated it has an additional feature or two that is above the 600(60hrz) refresh rate that it claims it makes it pictures in movie and sports "blurr" and "fuzzy" free. Is this a marketing gimic or is there an advantage over one manufacture to the other without paying for extra crap like "colored frames" or smudge free screens. Samsung claims its images are "blurr" free but a couple of professional reviews I read online state that blurryness or fuzzy edges are consistant with this model of Samsung? Why cant it be as simple as the old days of only 2 models to pick from. LOL

Plasma, I own 3 Samsung plasmas & 1 LCD. When my youngest needs a TV he will get the LCD and the bedroom will receive a Plasma in return.

I just bought a 54" Panasonic Plasma. Spent yesterday watching football. No blur at all. Great picture in a room with wall to wall windows. I think it was about $1050 at Costco. Heavy SOB though. It was a real bitch mounting it above the fire place (ya, I know, bad to having it this high, but I had no choice) My LCD projector on the other hand is horible with sports and motion blur(JVC-RS20).

My S1 Panny is blur free and looks great to me, pop on into the city and have a look, say next Sunday afternoon and we can watch some football and you can decide for yourself.

+1 on the Panny Plasmy. I, too, have wall-wall windows (heavy-lined drapes at night). After just about a year now, we still watch some stuff with lowered jaws. Blu-Ray looks fantastic!

Ohhh! Do it, do it! You'd be missing out if you do not to take Jay up on his offer!

That offer is open to all forum members especially since I missed out on that party on the lake.

I've had my eye on a Panasonic Plasma for my dext upgrade but the prices on the Samsung Plasmas have been distracting me.

Only problem I have with the Samsungs is that there are a number of Model lines, and I have difficulty figuring out what the value proposition of each is and, therefor, which one I want.

Anyone got any feedback on Samsung Plasmas vs Panasonic?

Thanks
snazzed

Panasonics cost more, but they're worth it vs. the Samsungs, in my opinion.

Wait until you've got the money.

I've got my eye on a Samsung UN46C6400 LED at Sam's Club at the moment for $1200. I'm thinking replacing my Samsung UN37B550 with this one at year end. I've been enticed by the LED and have been waiting for them to get most of the bugs worked out of them first. At least this is the 3rd generation LED (ie. the C in the model number).

Edit: Then I can delegate the 37 inch to be in front of my treadmill. Maybe then I would use it more often.

Ok. So consensus states Plasma is the winner.

I looked at the Panasonic line. The cheaper x, c, and u have what I will say is a GRAINY picture when watching a DVD that was played on a LED and LCD Panasonic and Sony TV's with a blueray. The LCD and LED were crystal clear and these were 60in. Although I will say these were $2500 tv's compared to the panny's which were around 1100 and 1200 on sale. The panny's were all 50in

The Pany salesperson said the "S" series is alot better, although they had none on display.

Help a bro out... if you were to go out tomorrow and spend NO MORE than $1500 on a TV... what brand/model would you get.

How big of a screen?

50 or 52.... 55 if the price is right, but want to keep it around the 50 or so. Any less will be too small.

Just because I have one and really like it I would get this one right now.

http://www2.visions.ca/Catalogue/Category/Details.aspx?categoryId=15&productId=5844

and all the LED LCD's appear to be priced beyond this by a little

i've got a 55" now, so I couldn't go lower but, the tv isn't as important as good sound to me so i could live with any set with a decent picture. of course that's just me, i don't need the highest, top of the line tv, just one with a nice looking picture.

Yes, the "S" version. The 50in is $1248 at our local Cactus Comm. This is the one they did not have on display.

I hope they have improved the S2 over the S1 versions of Panasonic Plasma. In some reviews I read how the S1 had an overly green tint that could not be adjusted out. So, one day I went to a BB store where they had a 60inch S1 setup in a private room. I took along my own copy of Harry Potter, Order of the Phoenix and watched the first 20-30 minutes of it, noting everywhere I saw an abundance of green. Then I went home and played the same 20-30 minutes on my Samsung LCD and those same scenes that had an abundance of green tint on the S1 were yellow, brown and grey on my Samsung.

So, given the above, I'd want to do the same kind of test with the S2.

Edit: But everytime I mention this here, I get responses of I never notice that and it's a good TV. Well, if denial is good enough for you, then I guess you should live with it. LOL.

Please do the review ASAP before I make a decision. haha

Never notice it and it's a great TV.

You say some reviews mention this green tint yet others do not, so it could be a hit and miss thing. Much like the shifting black levels that I supposedly have with my S1 as well, once again I have never noticed it.

I am sure I could find some bad reviews on every TV that has ever been produced recently. It has appeared that most manufacturers do fix the previous models problems only to have new ones pop up. It comes down to looking at it in the showroom, liking what you see and then buying it.

This is from a CNET review of the Panasonic S2 TV's. Note the green color problem with this set.

"Color accuracy: The S2 fell short of the accuracy of many of our comparison sets overall, although grayscale was a strength. As a result skin tones looked very good, as seen in the faces of Andromeda and Cassiopeia in Chapter 4. If we had to complain, they did look a bit warmer and more golden than our reference and a couple of the others, but happily missed the slight greenish cast of the G20 or the slightly too-pale look of the Samsungs and the Vizio.

On the other hand darker areas and shadows did dip into green, as seen on the shadowed walls of the temple in Chapter 6. Green also appeared overly intense in the forest scenes in Chapter 7, to a much larger extent than on any of the other sets, and skies and seas also looked too greenish. The latter two issues primarily result from the S2's inaccurate green primary and cyan secondary."

Link

If cost is an issue and you can live with the greenish tint then it's a no-brainer (except for the slightly higher cost of running a plasma).

Personally, I'll go with an LED.

I would have bought an LED but that extra cost kept me away.

If the green tint is only noticeable with inanimate objects and you have no other frame of reference then you wouldn't know that the coloring is off, much like subtle speaker differences are only noticeable with A/B testing.

I wouldn't be satisfied with the green tint. Just knowing it's there would probably spoil it for me. "Oh look, the sky has a green tint. I wonder what it really looks like." kind of thing would go on in my head all of the time.

The primary colors of SMPTE C and EBU were based on the actual phosphorescent illumination of specific materials (unfortunately Rec. 709 is just an average of those two). So the only way to get truly accurate primaries is to use those self-illuminating coatings. The filters used in LCD technology, to cut the white-light source down to the primary color are at best an approximation.

Phosphor-based displays have always been used as a reference for mastering.

And this means....?

I think you are saying that the primary colors on any modern TV are only approximations. But the LCD and LED sure appear to have better color resolutions than the plasmas.

That's the problem, the display is not supposed to over-saturate the colors. The person doing the mastering picks how bright a red is supposed to look. A display which uses a more "red" red is not showing the picture as intended.

I looked at my TV to get the model number. It is a Panasonic (Plasma), model # TC-54PS14

Regarding the reviews and green tints, I can verify that mine has no such tint. I perform all my own display calibrations. I use an i1-Pro meter and Calman V4 calibration software. When I calibrated this TV, I did not have to enter the service menu to change the color gamut, gamma or grey scale. Both were close enough right out of the box for my tastes. Slightly oversaturated colors, but I tend to prefer them oversaturated anyways. There was no green tint and keep in mind that this was a measured reading from a reputably good, entry level $1000 meter, and not opinion based. The picture is extremely good on this TV. It also does a very good job at de-interlacing and up-scaling. I use a DVDO Edge for this set up for video source switching instead of an AVR. I have played around a bit with the video going through the Edge and straight into the TV. The video with the Edge doing the processing is slightly better, but you have to really look for the differences.

As I said before, I paid about a grand for this TV at Costco. If you have a Costco close by, I suggest you go TV shopping there. They also carry the Samsung LED units there if you prefer LCD.

I'm not finding much in the way of reviews for this TV. It also looks to be perhaps a 2 year old model that probably isn't sold any more. 30k:1 contrast ratio which seems to point to an OK but subpar black level to todays standards. It's an S14 and not an S1 or S2.

That's native contrast ratio. No LCD gets anywhere near that. With Panasonic's almost-off blacks in dynamic mode, the contrast ratio approaches infinity.

But I never go by the dynamic ratio, manufacturers play too many games there. I want to know what the panel can do on its own. If a little more can be pulled out, fine, but I don't expect to ever get near the specs on the box with real world viewing.

Funny you should mention this model. I seen on Futureshop webpage its on sale for $1299. I did a search on it last night and only found one customer review who thought it was an older S1 model. I called our closet Futureshop (Medicine Hat) about an hour away and of couse they do not have this in stock. You mention Costco had it on for $1000? How long ago was this? Their webpage does not show this model. You say extremely good picture? Is this too say its not excellent? Are you happy with your purchase? How long have you had it?

Best Buy has the 50" Pany G20 on sale for 1100 dollars and is probably the best plasma they have in the store for under 2k. It's 5 mil to 1 contrast ratio and THX certified which truly only means you dont need to calibrate the tv. I am picking one up on Saturday but already own a 50" s2

Unfortunaly Im in Canada and the G20 is just under $2000 here. I see on your Sig line you own the S2. How do you like it? Did you find a difference in picture quality between the S2 and the G20 your going to pick up?

It's hard for me to say because i don't have the G20 in the house yet and i try not to judge by what i see in the stores due to all the variables out of my control but just the fact that its 5 million to one and thx certified tells me its worth the 200 dollar price jump (899 vs 1099). I used to be sold on LCD and especially LED but truthfully i wouldn't pay 500 dollars for one after owning plasma and the research i did showed Pany being #1 in the plasma world. The S2 will make a fine TV and i have mine in a room that gets lots of sunlight and the glare is not distracting though that depends on placement as well.

It has a damn fine picture. I bought it about two months ago. Yes, I'm quite happy. For sports, I will not consider anything but plasma or DLP. I am qite sensitive to motion blur.

I did not buy it on-line. I just walking in the store, looked at this TV, a few of the LED / LCD's, and bought this one. They still have them in stock as of last week.

I do not work for Panasonic. I just gave you an option to consider, as you seam concerned over price. Buy whatever you wish. My feelings will not get hurt. Good luck.

Hey Mike:

I bought the same TV (54ps14) from the local Futureshop here in June for my upstairs living room. I got it for $1299 Cdn which I consider to be quite a bargain. I agree that it has a great picture and I'm very happy with it considering the price!

72Mustang if you want to get it from futureshop just order it online and pay for the delivery...the box it comes in is huge and believe me you don't want to drop it!

So... finally got a tv. I really looked hard at the Panasonic Plasma's. I really wanted to like these. Yes, they have "richer" colors. Yes, they would be better in dark room. But I could NOT get use to the "grainy" aspect of alot of scenes even in HD and Blue ray. This would bother me everytime I seen it. One example is the Earth Hour Blue ray. The scene from the plane looking down at a pack of horses and the flock of birds flying over the land. The land was grainy as hell on the S2 54in Panasonic. Many other scenes when compared side to side to a LCD and/or a LED were just too grainy for me. And dont start talkin about grainy when watching non HD stations. So I went for a Sharp 52in Model 78u LCD. Visions had a one day sale last saturday for $998 down from their sale price of $1588. Of couse they have the listed price of $1999 which is bullcrap. I compared it to a 55in Samsung and could not really tell the difference in picture, so I save myelf $500 and went with the Sharp. Lets hope it plays out well. Thanks for all the advise though from everyone.

That should do you just fine. That's a great price, too. Now, just sit back and enjoy!

Nice! Enjoy that big screen.

I wonder about the tint that has been described on some of these monitors as being a characteristic of that particular manufacturers models or just the one that was purchased. I am sure anyone who has one of Joe Kane's DVE calibration discs knows how he constantly talks about how manufacturers play around with the color decoders in their sets to give them a certain unique "look".

Today I think to avoid these variations it probably would be better to spend a little less on the monitor and buy a piece of equipment like a VIDEO EQ(which I own) or one of the new DVDO IScan Duo Processors with the built-in multi-point grayscale and color management systems, some software like Chromapure and a meter and you can calibrate your monitor to an accuracy far superior to anything you could do with the set on its own.

Is there a DVD that one can by/use that can calibrate the TV? You know... like the THX on the higher end tv's? Adjust the contrast till all circles look white, ect... DVD?

It was mentioned above, called "Joe Kane's DVE calibration disc". I have one of these, although after using it for a while I tend to loose interest and revert back to one of the Samsung's built in medium intensity settings instead.

If you are not going to use a professional to calibrate your TV, there are several online sources for calibration numbers, here's the site I primarily use ... TweakTV.

With any of these calibration discs the whole purpose of them is to calibrate the picture of your display(color,tint,contrast brightness etc.)to reproduce the source material as close as possible to the original, in other words, to what is referred to as the "reference standard". I can't recall any Blu-Ray discs yet with the feature but for quite some time any THX DVD usually had test patterns in the menu that you could use to set up your monitor to reproduce, as close as possible, the original movie picture settings. However, in the end, this reference standard may not be appealing to all, hence, do what you did and use an internal setting in the monitor you find more appealing when watching television and/or movies.

There is no problem with that, however, always keep in mind that the picture you are watching in relation to reproducing the source material and based on how the majority of these televisions come out of the factory, without using the test patterns in the disc, more than likely won't be as "accurate" as it could be.

Joe Kane now has a Blu Ray version of DVE Essentials. Or you can pick up any Pixar flick and use the THX test patterns found therein to do some tweaking. Don't worry as much about the colors as the brightness and contrast settings. You can tinker with the colors until it looks right based on your eye (reds not too vibrant, greens not glowing, etc.)