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#322568 - 09/15/10 10:52 AM What to add?
Audiophilenewb Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 2
Newly registered Axiom user, but not a new axiom owner.

I have M80s, 2xM60s, M50s, 2xQS8, QS4, M22s, M3v3 and outdoor M3.

I have the M22s in is a very large area, which is open to above. The M22s are installed about 10 feet up and point slightly down towards the floor. On the other side of the room above is a loft and below is an open kitchen and hallway to other parts of the house. I ran speaker wire to that side of the loft, but figured the M22s would be able to fill the room, which they do. What I'm finding, is what most people here seem to find is the M22s have great sound but not a lot of lower end punch. This could be solved with a sub, but I was thinking of putting M3s on the opposite side of the room, as I find with the outdoor M3s and the other set of M3s (another house), that they have more "punch" but are not as "clean" as the M22s. I thought putting them together in the same room might get me the best of both worlds. What do you think?

Just to save a couple suggestions or comments all the speakers listed above are shared between houses, Home & Cottage. Also, the room with the M22s is for audio listening only, no TV in the room so I'm not going for HT "surround sound", I'm going for full stereo sound with bookshelf speakers as opposed to floor standing that just didn't work in this room.

Thanks in advance.

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#322571 - 09/15/10 11:03 AM Re: What to add? [Re: Audiophilenewb]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
I think adding M3s would help you accomplish what you want. If you can mount them near some corners, then the nice punchy bass they produce will be reinforced.
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#322573 - 09/15/10 11:04 AM Re: What to add? [Re: Audiophilenewb]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I'm currently running bookshelf M22 and on-wall M22 at the same time (+ center and sub) because they each have their own sound characteristics. I have them mounted vertically with each other because it introduces other sound problems otherwise. I've never tried on opposite sides of the room, but I don't think I would like that with both on the same channel. I plan to move the on-walls to the back of the room later, then wall mount bookshelf M22s with bookshelf M2's vertically above them. I think that would give me more of a wall of sound that just the M22's themselves. But the on-wall M2's might be a better choice for that.

I don't know if this helps any, but I thought I'd add my .02 anyway.

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#322579 - 09/15/10 11:18 AM Re: What to add? [Re: CatBrat]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Having the speakers on oppposite sides of the room will most likely create an odd sound as the M3's have a differnt sound characteristic than the M22's, especially if moving about in the room.

I would suggest to simply bump up the bass control on the receiver a couple DB and you will achieve the same exagerated upper bass level the M3 brings to the table.

An even better solution would be to get an EP400, or similar small sub, which reaches low enough to give full spectrum sound and small enough to fit anywhere. The fact this is for music only makes it a perfect fit for the 400 regardless of room size.
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#322648 - 09/15/10 03:23 PM Re: What to add? [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
I would add a sub to extend the lower end rather than the M3s to goose the midbass.
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#322788 - 09/15/10 10:37 PM Re: What to add? [Re: Audiophilenewb]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10634
AN, welcome. Ditto Fred's suggestion. A "punchy" bass, which appears to mean to many a bloated upper bass range, doesn't meet high fidelity requirements. Get a sub for better bass, which may not be "punchier" if the program material doesn't have that characteristic.
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#322821 - 09/16/10 09:50 AM Re: What to add? [Re: JohnK]
Audiophilenewb Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 2
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Taking it all into consideration. I originally ran four wires assuming 4 speakers but when ordering I figured two M22s would be enough, but it is and it isn't (if you know what I mean), the sound is clean, clear but not "full". I get where jakewash is coming from and given the positioning of the speakers I can definitely envisioning that exact problem walking around the room. At the same time, all the speakers are mount in corners and the seating is centered in the main room, so for sitting and listening it would probably work. The sub route is an option, I've only ever used SVS subs currently have two 20-31PC and a PB12. Even though this is a large room I'd consider another 20-31 over a PB12 because it sits in the corner a little better for less $ then a EP400. I like idea of a powerful bass in a little box, but not to compliment a $470 pair of M22s, if you get where I'm coming from. I've played with the bass levels on the M22s but it has had limited effect when trying to achieve "full" sound. I do appreciate the suggestions.

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#322836 - 09/16/10 11:16 AM Re: What to add? [Re: Audiophilenewb]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: Audiophilenewb
I've played with the bass levels on the M22s but it has had limited effect when trying to achieve "full" sound.
Then the M3 option isn't going to add much as they do not play any lower than the M22s, I think you are now at an impasse and have to decide if you want true full sound either with subs or finding room for M80s. smile

I will take a guess and say it is the midbass or rather the lack of it that you are noticing and that is the one thing I noticed was lacking with M22/sub combo. The combo is very close to sounding like a full range floor stander but the mid bass just doesn't get the same attention.

Quote:
I can definitely envisioning that exact problem walking around the room. At the same time, all the speakers are mount in corners and the seating is centered in the main room, so for sitting and listening it would probably work.


I would say not so fast, you would hear that tonal difference coming from the back and front at all times just not when moving around, it would just be even more noticeable when moving about the room.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#322975 - 09/16/10 10:18 PM Re: What to add? [Re: Audiophilenewb]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10634
AN, sure, a sub such as the 20-31 would definitely help, but just adding another pair of speakers, such as the M3s, doesn't appear to be something that would be worthwhile.

Your "What to add?" clearly referred to bass effects, but you may be under a misconception as to surround sound. The benefits certainly don't apply only, or even primarily, to movies. My music to movie ratio would probably be on the order of 99 to 1, but I always use processing such as DPLII to listen to 2-channel music sources in surround sound, for a closer approach to a realistic home audio experience. If you add speakers, you should consider a surround setup using QSs.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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