Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions M80s with Denon AVR 1911

Hi everybody. I'm new to this forum and I'm happy to have found such a large knowledge base.

Anyway, I have a pair of M80s on the way and wanted to ask if anybody has direct experience with the Denon 1911 and how it can handle these speakers.

I have a medium sized room and no subwoofer. I plan to use my faithful M3s as surrounds until I get something more adequate.

Historically Denon's have shown to have very robust amp sections which is why they are so popular(esp with 4 ohm speakers), however, their have been some concerns brought up reg'ing some of their new amps not being as strong as some of their previous ones. This was brought up a few weeks ago with one of the mid-level Denons which was tested recently...I'm not sure which thread it was brought up in, maybe someone remembers where it is. Used within it's limits, the 1911 *SHOULD be fine, however.

Was that on this forum Adrian? I don't remember seeing it.

Yes...it was actually the replacement for the 2809, I believe it was the new 3311. It caught my attention since I own the 2809 and have had no issues driving the M80s and HT with mine.

Hmm... search doesn't show anything for the 3311.

My 1804 ran my M80s with no trouble in my 3300 sqft room. I would be very surprised if the 1911 doesn't work equally as well, as Adrian mentioned, within limits. Meaning your room isn't huge ( you mention medium but one's medium is different for everyone) and you don't listen at extreme levels all the time.

I did find a thread on the 3311 specifically, but it wasn't the article I was thinking of. For some reason, I thought the link was from Dr.house.

The reason I ask is that, so far, I have not come across a single first person reference to a Denon failing to handle a 4 ohm load.

Hmm... PSB makes some 4 ohm nominal speakers. I should check out with my local dealer what they drive them with. They carry mostly Denon receivers.

Neither have I, that's why the article stood out.

I can't see any Denon having issues at listening levels it was designed for.

Thanks for all the input, I find it reassuring.

My room is 1500 cubic feet, to be more specific. I also cannot use very high volumes since I am in an apartment building.

Now, I noticed that the 1804 specs state: 90 W pc (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.08%THD) and 125 W pc (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD). I think it's similar if not the same for the 1911.

Does this mean that the receiver will deliver more power at lower ohms? Is this done automatically?

Was that the bench test results of one of the Denon models Adrian? I remember an individual posting that not too long ago.

Denon is one of the brands of AVR's that historically have the lowest instances of "shut down" issues being posted here. Denon AVR's are also probably one of the most used AVR's with the M80's among the forum members. So there is a good sample of Denon users. I have only read about one member SRoode putting his Denon into protect mode driving the M80's and VP180. Bear in mind those two speakers are rated at 4 ohm and each speaker has some impedance dips between 100hz and 200hz and also depending on where the crossover is set below 100hz. It was noted that when it did shut down he described it at levels which he does not normally listen to IIRC.

The M80's are fairly sensitive, so they do not need a lot of juice to get good volume in a medium sized room and average listening distance. As the others said and JohnK! within limits and keep the AVR ventilated in an open rack and you should have no problems with the M80 and Denon.

Great.

Three weeks is a long time. My hands are itching already...

P.S. If there is an impedance switch on the unit leave it set at the highest setting. So if there is choice between 8 ohm and 6 ohm, choose the 8 ohm setting, 8 ohm and 4 ohm, choose the 8 ohm setting, 6 ohm and 4 ohm, choose the 6 ohm setting etc.

Yes! some people thought(whether true or not) that Denon may be using less powerfull amps in the newer AVR's.

Is this the one you are looking for

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/725-denon-avr-3310ci-71-av-receiver.html


Reply By JohnK to Ram .............In the past I haven't taken seriously claims that Denons could somehow handle 4 ohm loads better than units such as Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha, because the lab tests that I read and personal experience didn't lend any factual support to those claims. I'm also not willing to take seriously a claim that Denons aren't suitable for 4 ohm use without more than that reviewer's report.

Examining it indicates in my view that either the individual unit was defective or the measurement was flawed. Nothing suddenly happens just after 1KHz that would cause distortion in an amplifier to shoot straight up, as his 4 ohm measurement shows. Furthermore, even his 8 ohm measurement isn't in accord with Denon design results, which support a 120 watt rating over the full 20Hz-20KHz range at no more than .05% THD, when operated for five continuous minutes at the full rated power.

I was interested to compare other Denon measurement results on that site, and found that both the 1909 measurements and the 2309 measurements showed no problem at 4 ohms. I also read the rather nonsensical comments by the 1909 reviewer, who still said that there was reason not to use 4 ohm speakers(the 2309 reviewer apparently hadn't gotten the message and said nothing of the sort). So, models one and two grades down from the 3310 didn't show such an anomalous result. Just more 4 ohm silliness demonstrated.

Ram, there's no good reason for you not to go with the 3310 or 3311. Also, you shouldn't assume that an amplifier with more maximum power capability would actually give you an improvement in performance. The 2310/2311 should have all the power needed for safe volume levels with the M80s.

Thank you, Ram! yes, that was the test, actually the 3310 as it turns out. As John brought up, maybe the test equipment or the unit itself was flawed since "lesser" Denons had not seen any issues with the 4 ohm loads applied.

Yes and yes.

As the resistance drops in the speaker the amp is able to produce more power this results in more heat produced by the amp and is the reason why many receivers will shutdown with low resistance 4 ohm speakers. Denons appear to be able to handle this lower resistance/ heat build up better than most, not to say others are not able to run 4ohm designs as well. Grunt and many others have Onkyo's driving their systems and have worked very well for them too; albeit with reports of possibly a little more heat coming from the avr requiring a fully open placement to help dissapate the heat.

E2, welcome. Yes, as I indicated in the reply that Ram quoted, there's no good reason to suspect that your 1911 would have any difficulty operating the M80s at safe listening levels. In the actual text of that reply I linked the 1909 and 2309 tests to illustrate the point, rather than just mentioning them.

As I commented in that reply, the rather odd viewpoints expressed by two of the three reviewers there are another example of a silliness that sometimes seems to infect discussions when a speaker happens to be designated as having a nominal 4 ohm impedance. Using the number 4 rather than 8 doesn't transport us into a parallel universe where Ohm's Law doesn't apply. Especially with speakers such as the M80s which have a slightly higher sensitivity than average(therefore using less power and often current than an 8 ohm speaker of lesser sensitivity), it should be recognized that typical modern HT receivers of all the major manufacturers do fine with such speakers in real world home listening applications.

Thanks, the information is very much appreciated!

I'm driving M80s and a VP180 with a Denon 890 and never had no issues. The few times that I listened at very loud levels for 1 hour or 2, the Denon got hot but never shut down. You will be fine.