Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Upgrade to B&W Matrix 805

You're welcome, Alan.

In reg's to the listening test, I know I(and several others) had a problem expressing what differences we were hearing into words, despite clearly noticing them. Also, when you know there are 20+ more people waiting to do the test, I found myself rushing through it a little and the only cd available that I was partly familiar with was the Holly Cole one(forgot to bring my own). Regardless, conveying the audible differences I could hear into audio terminology/jargon proved difficult for me on the test paper.

That was one area where Dr. Toole did training prior to doing blind listening tests. It didn't make sense when I first read that paper and I wondered if there was inherant bias introduced by doing that. Having gone through a session, I can understand the need.

FWIW, I did the session a day earlier without any time pressure and I still had the same problem expressing the differences.

Adrian and Fredk,

Yes, there is a learning curve about expressing those differences, and certainly a training session for newcomers to the double-blind experience makes pinpointing obvious differences and even nuances easier. Anyway, I'm writing a sidebar for the next AudioFile Axiom newsletter using my own rating sheet based on the M3 vs B&W Nautilus session. Working title is "Critical Listening" or something like that.

It wasn't an easy double-blind test by any means. We could have picked a real stinker of a speaker to put in with the M3 but early on in the planning when we decided to schedule a double-blind comparison we wanted it to require honing of one's listening skills.

Alan

I found I liked the B&W better (but only by a hair). The M3 had better bass and a better sound stage, that was noticed on all tracks and right away. However the the B&W seemed to have more detail in the upper frequiences and sounded more natural on male and female vocals when hitting higher notes.

Having said that, the value of the M3 (and this is the 1st time I have ever heard the M3) is far superior over the B&W.

If money was no object, I would go with the B&W. For me and most people, money is a huge concern, the M3's win!

Hey Alan. Have you guys compared the M22 and the B&W bookshelf? That would actually be another interesting comparison.

hey all, an update, I had the opportunity to audition B&W Nautilus and B&W DIamond. I felt the Ns were sad when compared to my Matrix 805 ( i really dont understand though how a new age speaker from B&W can sound inferior to their old speakers!) and the diamond was definitely much better than my Matrix, the highs were smoother compared to my Matrix.

But the price of Diamond doesn't justify a purchase as an upgrade!

New only means new, not necessarily better, as you have found out. Design changes in components, crossovers etc. year to year can make an other wise good speaker line sound bad to some people and good to others, such is our hobby.

Sometimes design changes really mean...cheaper to produce...more profits....re-invent a product to sell the "newest" version...it doesn't necessarily mean better.That would go for just about any manufactured product.

Quoted for truth. You would amazed at the running changes that occur over a products life span - not just with speakers. Cost cutting measures are usually the driving factor. The build quality of today's John Deere riding lawn mowers are nowhere near that of 20+ years ago which also included a Kohler cast iron engine. On the other hand with some products like electronics running changes are filled with incomplete information for consumers because they are not usually disclosed nor seen. Such changes may or may not affect performance, if not there is usually a trade-off with build quality. When companies seek to make improvements with a product in one area, there can also be cost-cutting measures in another area. Got to maintain your margins.

Again, thanks all.

So it basically takes me back to Sqaure one...though it was a tie between M3's and B&W N805, the fact might be, B&W Matrix 805 might be better than the M3 so no where an upgrade!

Plus taking it back to India rules out the option of returning it...choices choices and decisions!!!!!!