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Benefits of an amp?
#325983 10/19/10 04:20 AM
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jhunt17 Offline OP
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I was wondering at what point would you audibly notice the benefit of an amp? I own an Onkyo 805 and don't listen all that loudly. Can't really unless the kid, or soon to be kids, are not here. Anyway, is there an audible difference at any spl level, at some level, or only at high volume levels? I have always wanted to know this. I run my onkyo in 7.1 with axiom Epic 60 500 system. I am finding that I am becoming quite the movie soundtrack listener, such as Braveheart, The Patriot, Conan the Barbarian, BSG syfy channel, and other movie scores. I never thought I would enjoy this. I was strictly just a movie person until I got my speakers. Now I love to just hear MUSIC! Strange how that has changed. Anyway, I digress. Thanks for the input. Good Night All!


7.1 theater room
60 fronts vp180 center 4 qs8's ep500 sub

3.0 tv room
m3's vp150 center
Re: Benefits of an amp?
jhunt17 #325986 10/19/10 04:51 AM
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JH, higher maximum power capacity, regardless of whether the amplifier is in a receiver or is separate, becomes audibly significant only when the lower powered unit would audibly distort at the highest sound levels which the listener is using. Putting the amplifier in a separate box can in itself have no audible effect. So, in your case, unless you exceed the power capability of your 805(highly unlikely at safe listening levels)there would be no benefit to be noticed from a receiver amplifier or separate amplifier having a higher maximum power output rating.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Benefits of an amp?
JohnK #325994 10/19/10 05:15 AM
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JohnK believes all (well designed) solid state amps of equal output sound the same at any given sound level. There are many who disagree with this theory.

Neverthless, the Onkyo 807 has a very strong amplifier section, stable with 4 ohm rated speakers. That having been said, I'm watching a Cox Cable 5.1 broadcast of the "Event." I'm using a Sony TA E9000ES processor (pre-DTS), an Anthem PVA 5 (5 channel) amplifier, a pair of Michaura M665 front L/R speakers (like the Axiom M60s [2 x 6.5" and 1 x 6.25" Axiom drivers and a 0.75" titanium tweeter], a VP150 center channel, a pair of Mission 77DS surround speakers a Dahlquist PDQ1500 15" subwoofer.

The sound quality is stunningly excellent. My last integrated surround receiver was an Onkyo 797. There is no comparison in sound quality. Maybe it's the difference between processors. Maybe it's the amplifier section compared to the Anthem separate. I don't know.

Years ago, I had a Sony STRDB 1070 receiver. The Sony amp section was weak. I used it as a processor, a pair of Onkyo M282 2 channel amps and aKenwood KA9100 for front L/R. The Sony using outboard amps sounded better, even at relatively low volumes.






Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Benefits of an amp?
2x6spds #326001 10/19/10 12:02 PM
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I've had a cheap Sony receiver rated at 100 wpc, then switched to a Pioneer Elite rated at 110 wpc. I don't give much credence to the wpc rating, but I do think that the power supply has just about everything to do with the sound. The sound difference was tremendously different. One unit was light and the other was heavy, hence the better power supply.

Re: Benefits of an amp?
2x6spds #326006 10/19/10 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
JohnK believes all (well designed) solid state amps of equal output sound the same at any given sound level. There are many who disagree with this theory.

Neverthless, the Onkyo 807 has a very strong amplifier section, stable with 4 ohm rated speakers. That having been said, I'm watching a Cox Cable 5.1 broadcast of the "Event." I'm using a Sony TA E9000ES processor (pre-DTS), an Anthem PVA 5 (5 channel) amplifier, a pair of Michaura M665 front L/R speakers (like the Axiom M60s [2 x 6.5" and 1 x 6.25" Axiom drivers and a 0.75" titanium tweeter], a VP150 center channel, a pair of Mission 77DS surround speakers a Dahlquist PDQ1500 15" subwoofer.

The sound quality is stunningly excellent. My last integrated surround receiver was an Onkyo 797. There is no comparison in sound quality. Maybe it's the difference between processors. Maybe it's the amplifier section compared to the Anthem separate. I don't know.

Years ago, I had a Sony STRDB 1070 receiver. The Sony amp section was weak. I used it as a processor, a pair of Onkyo M282 2 channel amps and aKenwood KA9100 for front L/R. The Sony using outboard amps sounded better, even at relatively low volumes.

All of this is hearsay and most of it would fall flat if subjected to a double blind listening test.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I am, however, honestly happy that your chosen equipment brings you obvious sonic pleasure. That's really what matters in the end.


I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
Re: Benefits of an amp?
2x6spds #326016 10/19/10 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: 2x6spds

Years ago, I had a Sony STRDB 1070 receiver. The Sony amp section was weak. I used it as a processor, a pair of Onkyo M282 2 channel amps and aKenwood KA9100 for front L/R. The Sony using outboard amps sounded better, even at relatively low volumes.

2x6spds, is that Onkyo M-282 ok with a 4ohm load(ie did you try it)?


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: Benefits of an amp?
Adrian #326024 10/19/10 04:07 PM
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I never tried the M282s with a 4ohm load. I don't think they were 4 ohm certified.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Benefits of an amp?
2x6spds #326030 10/19/10 04:41 PM
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With my brief period running Axiom's A1400 with my M80's and using my Denon 3808 as a pre/pro I could hear a difference at all volume levels, albeit minor at low volume. The bass out of the M80s was more substantial at lower volume with the amp. That was pretty much the only significant difference there was at lower volumes, not really worth the price of an amp for low volume listening, IMO. At higher volumes the difference was across the board, better bass and the mids and highs were cleaner, more open and airy. The M80s even seemed to have wider soundstage.

On the other hand I listened to the A1400 amp at onn's and never really heard the same differences. Whether or not this difference was due to room configuration/layout I don't know so YMMV.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Benefits of an amp?
jakewash #326036 10/19/10 05:01 PM
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Jason, would you say that you had to crank things above your loudness comfort zone (beyond the loudest you typically listen) to really notice the differences?


-David
Re: Benefits of an amp?
terzaghi #326037 10/19/10 05:41 PM
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I noticed an audible difference between my 3801/3808, and my Emotiva RPA-1 when running my Paradigm Monitor 9's or M80's. The RPA-1 just seems to bring the speakers to life; it's like a breath of fresh air as everything sounds cleaner at all levels.


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