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Re: AVR vs Seperates for 80's
Captain4105 #329578 11/25/10 12:23 PM
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I'll weigh in that you are on the right track if better fidelity is your ultimate goal. Generally speaking a good set of separates should move you in that direction.
I've always been a big fan of receivers for their ease of use and compact size. I have several integrated receivers in the house including an original Sansui 9090db which powers my Algonguins and a Harmon Kardon AVR80. Both have the usual great FR, distortion specs etc.

However for serious listening I rely on my Integra AVR9.8/Outlaw 770 combo and my Pass Lab B1 buffer pre/McIntosh amps. Soundstage width and depth as well as imaging are just better with quality separates particularly if you like to listen for long periods. The reasons for this are fairly well documented.

Based on my experience, heat and quality of circuits and internal power supplies are the items which most determine why these differences exist. Heat plays havoc with specs and leads to a drop in sound quality of the unit. With a receiver no matter how good its designed its not going to have less heat than a system with separate external amps. The other factor hurting performance is the amount of RF emanating from the internal power supply and how well its isolated from the rest of the circuitry. Modern integrated processors have actually really improved in this area but again it depends on how well the internal amp and other transformers are insulated.

As usual there are exceptions. With all the advances in audio engineering the decision is tougher if the choice is between a high end receiver and lower quality separates. Also with separates, component matching and system synergy is also a factor to be aware of though its less of a concern with an all solid state setup.


John
Re: AVR vs Seperates for 80's
JohnK #329614 11/25/10 10:08 PM
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I claim no such ability. I claim only to be under the influence of my own subjectivity in terms likes and dislikes of sound...nothing more, nothing less.

Re: AVR vs Seperates for 80's
Captain4105 #329629 11/26/10 12:44 AM
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I went the separates route simply for an increase in power or headroom. I have a 4000 cubic foot dedicated HT room. More power simply equals more safety from clipping and speaker damage. I have done some experimentation between my Rotel, Denon, and Audio track power amplifiers and really can’t hear a difference between them. Granted these were nowhere scientific (something I’d like to put on my bucket list; true blind listening test between different power amplifiers).

I also recently purchased a Denon AVR and use it as a pre / pro. It was actually cheaper to do this than to buy a dedicated pre / pro. I don’t believe I am missing anything sound wise between this Denon AVR and a much more expensive pre / pro. I also figured it adds more flexibility and probably would be easier to sell if required down the road.

The M80’s are a very efficient flat revealing speaker, as you have already found out. I find they love to be played loud, and to do that you need to have power. To get power, (200 wps plus) you need to go separates!

Be forwarded, the M80’s are capable of playing cleanly way beyond safe listening levels in modest sized rooms. Hearing lost is not just possible, but expected at these levels!

pn


paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Epson 3020
Rotel RB-880
Denon AVR-990
Re: AVR vs Seperates for 80's
JohnK #329947 11/30/10 09:35 PM
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to me - a big part of the seperates arguement is that amplifiers have great longevity. You can look at an AVR from fifteen years ago and the cutting edge might have included composite video. Today,that's worth pennies on the dollar to most people.

On the other hand, a fifteen year old solid amp is, to me at least, still worth a great deal. Only the processing bits need to be upgraded for htmi 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 etc...

And although axioms are very efficient, this is an evolving hobby for many. Perhaps you'll someday want to ply with a pair of power hungry speakers... i.e thiel, etc. today's "seperate" investment will likely continue to hold it's own in many future senarios

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