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Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33187 02/06/04 08:27 AM
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Just got my M22s and SS16 stands today. 7 days goes by real slow when you're waiting for speakers!

I'm hooked on the sound. Wasn't impressed at first, but I had forgotten to turn off my crummy 6" sub that was probably crossing over at about 200 Hz. Oops. Anyways, nothing new here, loved the highs, clear, clean, etc.

SS16 stands are a bit curious, however. A little rough around the edges (hole in the platform could have been drilled more cleanly). Only got 6 anti-slip pads, which is OK because the M22s came with 8 of their own (actually the M22's rubber "feet"), so I used those instead. What I find unusual is that when the M22s are on the stands, they lean slightly. There's a 15 - 20 mm difference between the distance from the top of the M22 to the wall and the distance from the bottom of the M22 to the wall, so it looks like it's leaning forward slightly. If I move the top platform 180 degrees, the speakers lean slightly back, etc. Is this by design? If so, are they meant to lean forwards or backwards?

The stands also seem lighter and tippier than I'm comfortable with (needs to be toddler resistant), especially with the weight of the M22s. Another smallish aesthetic issue with the M22s on the SS16s, is that the stand top is square, while the M22 cabinet is wedge shaped. This results in some of the platform not being covered completely by the speaker. Just looks kinda funny, that's all.

If the SS16 had a weighted base (like a microphone stand), and a wedge shaped top platform that was perfectly level, I'd be tempted to keep it. Would also be nice if the M22 had metal screw terminals (like those found on the bottom of the SS16 base for the spikes) so it could be fixed to the stand without having to put nasty wood screws into the cabinet.

So my main question is not "Do I keep the SS16" (no), but "Do I keep the M22." I either need to get a more expensive stand that is much more stable, or make one myself (guaranteed ugly). Either way I'm going to have to put wood screws into the cabinets so they're not knocked off their stands when they're bumped into. I do, however, like being able to control the level of bass in a sub / bookshelf system, being in a duplex. (Up during the day, down at night).

Of course by the time I get more expensive stands, and a sub, I'm pretty much at the price of M60s. Big heavy towers, good bass response (music only), and the clarity of the M22 sounds appealing.

So I have 2 choices - sonic overkill with the M60s (we play music at pretty moderate volume), or wanking around with the M22s to make them stable. If anybody has suggestions, I'd be pleased to hear them.

Oh, yeah, and fantastic sounding speakers! Thought I should end with that.

Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33188 02/06/04 12:51 PM
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These should fit the bill for not much more than the Axiom stands.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=240-747&DID=7

Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33189 02/06/04 01:27 PM
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The leaning problem sounds like a problem with the stand. I don't think mine do this.
I was able to fill the tube of my SS16's with lead shot which added much stability. I am a bit annoyed by the square platform, but I will live with it.
If I had it to do all over again, I might have chosen a different set of stands, but they match the AVS3 and AV5 very well.
I don't think it would be a problem to ship your stands back Axiom, if you kept the boxes.

Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33190 02/06/04 02:57 PM
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Although the M60s are theoretically occupy about the same floor space as M22s on towers, in actuality they seem a lot bigger. If you seriously consider this route, block out the space or better yet bend an old cardboard box into the dimensions of an M60 to ensure you've got the space.

M22s+sub vs M60s with no sub is a very close call. You could keep the M22s, attach the stands, put lead shot in the stands, and get a Hsu STF-1 ($300). That's a great sounding setup and would probably be OK safety-wise. OTOH two M60s are about the same cost as M22s+stand+STF-1.

I've had M22s + STF-2 and M60s without a sub. Both are excellent. I very slightly prefer the M22+sub approach, simply because I like plenty of bass. But the M60s have adequate bass by themselves, and (to my ear) a somewhat better upper bass/lower midrange.

I guess how much home theater vs music is the final decision point. If more HT, sub is probably better. If more music, the M60s are probably better.

You can't go wrong either way. Both sound great.

Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33191 02/06/04 03:39 PM
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I agree completely with the comment on HT vs. music. At one point yesterday when I was testing out my new axioms, I changed over to stereo and shut off the sub. (So I was just listening to the m60s.) I listened for a while, then, forgetting that I had shut off the sub switched back over to PLII. The music still sounded excellent, I didn't even notice that the reciever still had the sub set to "off". The upper bass and lower midrange that the m60s produce is very clean and alive. You can close your eyes and imagine you're sitting right next to instrument itself. If you have any halfway decent recordings with an upright bass or cello, you probably know what I mean. (Granted had I been listening to dance music of some sort I probably would have noticed the missing sub.)

So, after a half an hour or so I put in "Fellowship of the Ring", I like the initial scene where Sauron essentially explodes and the shock wave goes out across the battlefield to test low bass, and I wanted to get my sub set in balance with the axioms. Now, with a powerful sub, you can seriously feel the shockwave pass over you, and I felt nothing. Which is when I finally realized I hadn't turned my sub back on.

Point being, for music the m60s sound excellent across the spectrum. But when it comes to groundshaking, you will want a sub.
-A


[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]
Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33192 02/06/04 03:59 PM
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That's a good review of the stands uber.
Alot of ppl ask about them and about their stability. You should send a PM to Amie in regards to this issue. Axiom does like feedback about their products and it will only help them to improve their future models.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33193 02/06/04 06:02 PM
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I too was not very impressed with the SS16 when I received them. They just weren't stable enough for a speaker as top heavy as the M22. They work just fine with my old Snells though, which are a more traditional box shape. The M22's being so top heavy makes the need for a very solid base all the more important. In that regard, the SS16 just doesn't fit the bill.



Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33194 02/06/04 08:44 PM
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I have the SS24. I had problems at first as well. One of the threads was stripped. I got that straightened out and they are working fine now, they just had to be made really tight in order to avoid the wobble effect.

Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33195 02/06/04 10:52 PM
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Hi ubernatural,

Well, that is certainly one of the most thorough reviews of a stand that I've read in some time. Thank heavens you liked the speakers!

Seriously, I've passed along some comments on stands to Ian at the plant, as well as a suggestion for an entirely different stand design. Something may happen eventually.

I recall another customer used a bracket to anchor his M22s to the wall behind while they remained on the stand, thus making them toddler-proof. I think he also had a large dog who was prone to bumping into things. Admittedly a fairly radical approach, but he did point out that the bracket was invisible from the front (the base of the M22s still rested on the stands.)

Regards,



Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: Some questions re: M22 and SS16 (longish)
#33196 02/07/04 03:25 AM
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Thanks everyone for the advice. I've still got most of the 30 days to mull it over and make a decision about getting the M60s vs keeping the M22s. I'm leaning towards the M60s since my setup is music only. Problem is, I can't afford them yet . That's one benefit of the bookshelf / sub system - you can build it up incrementally.

I'll post updates as I figure out what to do (and possibly a comparison of M60s vs M22s, if I go that route). Good idea, Alan, on mounting to the wall as well as keeping them on stands, but the imaging and soundstage is really great about 8" off the wall - seems to degrade the closer they go.

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