Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Sub advice : my head hurts

That's surprising(Emo -20db at 22hz). I'm always browsing the diy speaker sites and there are buckets full of 6"-8" woofers that are spec'ed close to or better than that.

That 22hz frequency response is stated as in room and the graphs you are looking at are groundplane measurements. Two different animals and should be interpreted as such. There should be a +- stated by the manufacturer in that spec though. Those graphs do not take into consideration room gain and interactions which is the whole purpose of those graphs. They are actually pretty good measurements at that price point and typical of a lot of subwoofers (even more expensive ones). We just don't see raw graphs on most subs especially budget ones. Keep perspective that isn't a high end sub.

P.S In room specifications that manufacturers use are ways for manufacturers to fudge specs to make them more pretty then they are.

MarkSJohnson and SRoode,

I've learned a lot today. Thank you very much.

I was being sarcastic...I should have added an emoticon!

Perhaps a sarcasticon.

I nominate "sarcasticon" as the best new word of the year.

I've been very pleased with my Outlaw. Heftier than the EP175 I was considering and in retrospect made a decent choice. You may also want to check out Aperion's Bravus II 8D. Looks like it's been redesigned with three drivers (two being passive); I've sampled this sub and it's very articulate, worth considering and has a small foot print as well,.

I have not listened to the other subs in my own home. So not an apples to apples comparison. It may be that the listening environment was better when I listened to the other two subs. I think that when it comes to movies I might just like an over exagerated low end. The one thing that is nice about the ep is that you never ever hear it when you're not supposed to.

Jakewash

Do you think that the missing 50-70hz range only applies to the on walls or to the M22s as well? The reason I ask is that I am planning on building a second dedicated HT room and am strongly considering the M22s. I've always read on these forums that the M22s with a good sub is a good combo. Do I need to go to towers to properly cover this range?

It does apply to the M22's as well but I suspect not to the same extent as your on walls(haven't heard the on-walls but the graphs and owner reviews suggest it). The fuller mid/upper bass range(50-100hz) is what I was looking for when I upgraded to my M80's. The bookshelf M22s and my PB13-U sound very good together and nearly the equal of the M60/M80's, IMO, but not quite as good as the real thing, Floorstanders still play that range better, IMO, YMMV etc., etc. . As Dean has noted, listening distance and room environment play such a huge role that not everyone will have the same response/issues with any speaker.