Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater New Outlaw 978 Audyssey is the winner.

Back some time ago Outlaw, and I believe Sherwood Newcastle, was looking at using Trinnov, well as we know dates came and went and nothing ever happened.

Looks like the new 978 due out pretty soon will have Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

Scott from Outlaw anounces 978!

Building amps is one thing, but getting a pre-pro right and working with all the technology suppliers involved, legal aspects, and testing is another. The outlaws are a good bunch of guys, their amp history proves that no question. I'm sure the product once released will be top notch, and have a good following.

I know all the amps except the 2200 are built in the US in California by ATI per Odyssey specs. The 2200 monoblock is build in Taiwan for Outlaw.

Nope, Amplifier Technology, Inc.

Me and Bob Kay live about 5 minutes away from Outlaw. do you want us to go over there and steal a preproduction model for you?

That possum is messing with me.

And she's a lady - you'd never catch her drunk on the floor, struggling to eat a cheeseburger.

Yeah, I have the 7125 amp = 7 channels at 125 W each. It has powered my Epic 80/500 system effortlessly for 4 years.

I only have 5:1 in my HT, so I use the zone 2 function on the prepro to power a pair of Paradigm in-wall speakers next door in the rec room. I got them from davidsch on the downlow.

Isn't "your" opossum a celebrity in Germany?

I'm still tempted to contact Outlaw and see if they'll do an exchange of services.... some equipment for better photos on their site.

Model 978 Update



Dear CV:



It's been a while since our last update on the Model 978, and things have moved along to the point where it is now time to bring you up to date on our progress along with a few other new details. Some of you have posted in the Saloon asking what is happening with the Model 978. We've read all of your comments and concerns and hopefully this update will answer many of the questions you've been asking.




Starting with the outside appearance of the Model 978, we're still tweaking the front panel finish and color. While these images are close to what the production units will look like, there are still some adjustments to be made and our current samples are about one rev away from final.







The rear panel shows a wide array of analog, S/P-DIF and HDMI connections. As previously announced, there are both conventional and fully balanced audio outputs, including dual subwoofer outputs. For video, there are two HDMI outputs for those with both a projector and a standard flat panel display in the same room.

For those who realize that it's what's on the inside that really counts, the Model 978's internals are evidence of the work being done across three continents on our Outlaw-exclusive design. The features, layout and component choices are not shared with any other product. The Model 978 is being created by Outlaws, for Outlaws, and will be built in a world-class facility specializing in high-end components.

Chock full of high quality components, the internal topology is both clean and compact. That's intentional, as the high degree of integration and the use of multi-layer boards leads to shorter signal paths and improved noise immunity.

Looking carefully at the images in our "Prototype Gallery," you may also ask "Where is the transformer?" The answer is it's there, but thanks to the use of a switch-mode power supply for increased efficiency and performance, there is no need for the larger conventional or torroid transformers you are used to seeing. The main and standby transformers are both on the PSU board right behind the front panel board.

Speaking of components, it's time to talk about some of the choices we've made:

The audio DSP is a pair of robust TI chips, similar to what you will find in the most powerful high-end AVRs and surround processors.
The HDMI architecture is based on the latest components from Analog Devices, offering the fastest possible switching. Along with full HDMI v.1.4a compliance for 3D you will also be able to take advantage of a single wire connection for audio from the new "connected TVs" via the HDMI Audio Return Channel.
Here's the one you've been waiting for: The DACs are from ESS's ultra-high performance Sabre family and are similar to the ones that have received rave reviews for their implementation in the Oppo Blu ray players. We promised the best sounding product at or above its price, and this is just one of the ways we will deliver on that goal.


All the other features previously announced remain on-board. This includes a second zone system, an audiophile-grade phono preamp section, Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and hassle-free software updates via the front-panel USB port that will not require a "loader."


Now that you have had a peek at, around, and inside the Model 978 and know more about the "what," your next question is almost certainly "when?". There's no hiding the fact that this is taking longer than first anticipated, but the complexity of the hardware and software has lengthened the development cycle beyond our estimates. As we've said, and as the photos demonstrate, this product is well along the development path and is on the way, just not as quickly as we had originally intended.


To give you a "behind the scenes" idea of why things are taking longer than expected, here are a few software items we're currently working on:
The load time for the front panel display, so that it accurately displays the unit's status in alignment with the on-screen messages, is not as fast as it should be. That would seem to be simple to correct, but it involves two separate microprocessors and their respective software "stacks." As those in the software world know, once you change anything in the code you have to make certain that it not only works as desired, but also that you've complied with the "do no harm" rule and not broken one thing as you fix another.
The upgrade process via USB for the Model 978's internal microprocessor (MCU) is complete and fool-proof, but we are not yet satisfied with the stability of the update process for the DSP. Therefore, we're tweaking the code and interface to ensure DSP updates are as reliable as the update process for the MCU.
There have been quite a few changes to the Model 978 since its initial configuration on both the hardware and software side. For example, adding MultEQ XT32 required adding additional DSP RAM and a significant change to the menu system. Now that the hardware is frozen we've continued to align and adjust the full menu system and controller code to meet the requirements of the hardware and feature set.
Put this all in the pot, stir it with a hefty dose of licensing, safety and regulatory testing and then add a topping of extensive beta testing and then final software regression testing yet to come, and this cake is taking a while to bake. It's definitely in the oven and based on our latest estimates we're targeting a release at the end of the year.



As we've said before, and as you have seen from experience, all release date estimates are subject to change. If things go well, we'll ship on time. If we encounter some bugs that become tough to crush, there might be one more slip. Either way, the guiding philosophy is to deliver to you a bug-free product that works right from first delivery. We'd much rather take heat for shipping a bit later than promised if it means keeping to our promise of leaving beta testing to the actual beta testers, not to end-user customers.



Much has been done, but more work remains. It's time to get back to the hardware bench and the coding screens. We know many of you will be tempted to call the Hideout in hopes of uncovering additional details about the Model 978, but please understand that the information here and in our previous updates is all we can share at this time. As we move closer to release we'll continue to update you with periodic updates both in the Saloon and in our e-mail newsletters.



We once again thank you for your patience and want you to know that we're much closer to the conclusion of this project than it might seem. With the information here you have firm evidence that the Model 978 will set a new benchmark for high-performance, high-value, A/V processors. It will be bug-free, flexible, yet simple to use and flawless in quality at delivery in a way that will reward your wait with years of listening pleasure not unlike our Model 990 which many of you are still enjoying as you wait for the Model 978.



Finally, as mentioned in our last update, the "Outlaw Owner Discounts" previously announced for those who own the 990 and certain earlier Outlaw products remain in effect. Enjoy the summer!


Best regards,
The Outlaws

Don't Marantz and Integra already offer similarly-featured pre-pros for about the same price?

As you may know, we have been developing the Model 978 processor as a successor to the Model 990 for quite some time. Unfortunately, we have some disappointing news.

The Model 978 processor project has been suddenly and unilaterally cancelled by our development partner/factory in China and consequently, all work on this project has ceased. Given the length of time that many of you have been waiting for the Model 978 we owe you an explanation as to what happened.

With progress on this product moving too slowly for all of us, we assigned Scott Jackson, our Sales Manager, to work directly with the factory in an effort to speed things up. Scott first visited the factory in January, and was able to resolve many issues. With the success of the first trip, Scott anticipated accelerating the project through to completion during a second trip to China last month.

Indeed, during this second visit great progress was made. Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was now fully working, the video and audio subsystems were fully functioning, the HDMI system had passed pre-certification testing, and the Model 978 was ready to be submitted for formal approvals. The factory's engineering department invited Scott to return again in July to help resolve the few remaining issues raised by our beta testers.

At the last minute, Scott's return to Boston was delayed when the factory's management asked for additional time in order to share the results of a meeting that was just held with one of their largest customers. As we soon learned, the purpose of this meeting was to address this customer's objection to the factory's decision to build products for companies that they considered "competitors." For the record, this customer, headquartered in North America, is NOT an Internet-direct company and its brands and products are sold through conventional "brick and mortar" dealers. For that reason, the factory did not view Outlaw as a direct competitor to this customer and therefore joined with Outlaw in the development of the Model 978.

During this meeting the factory's management informed Scott that this specific customer had made it clear, on a non-negotiable basis, that building either a receiver or processor for certain companies they perceived as competitors was "not acceptable." Outlaw was near the top of this short list and as a result all work on the Outlaw branded processor by the factory had to be cancelled immediately. To say that Scott, myself, and the rest of the Outlaws were stunned by this decision is an understatement.

Over the last few weeks we have exhausted every avenue to find a path that would preserve the Model 978 platform. These options included the possibility of purchasing the PCB layout files, firmware, and software from the factory in order to finish the development process and build this processor elsewhere. Unfortunately, we were informed by the factory that such a transfer would not be possible. This is due in part to the nature of our agreements with the factory, as well as the intense pressure on the factory from this customer. Every alternative solution we presented was ultimately rejected by our now former partner/factory.

For those of you who are Star Trek fans, this is our own "Kobayashi Maru" - a problem for which there is no known solution.

We realize that this is not the first Outlaw product that hasn't made it to the market. As many of you may remember, we cancelled the Model 997 processor once we realized that it would not work properly. In that case, the platform suffered from a combination of architecture and software issues. Our decision to cancel was validated by the relative failure of the Sherwood R972, the A/V receiver based on that platform.

By contrast, in this case the factory's unilateral cancellation of the Model 978 is a totally different story. This development project was a collaborative effort between the factory and Outlaw, with the critical parts and circuits chosen and designated by us, including the addition of our proprietary phono preamp circuit. Our goal from the outset was to design and build a unit that would be an extraordinarily strong performer, capable of competing sonically with the very best processors available. In addition, we took into account the constructive feedback from members of the Saloon, such as the inclusion of the Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

This product represented the best thinking of the entire Outlaw team. With all of the time, energy and collaborative effort invested to-date, the idea of not having this flagship processor in our arsenal is extremely difficult to accept, especially since it was so close to completion.

Given the nature of Internet-direct businesses, we expect that this news will resonate across the chat rooms and forums, along with the conspiracy theories that tend to accompany such things. We also realize that there may be a certain amount of hostility by some, and perhaps the clinking of champagne glasses on the part of others. Regardless of whatever postings or rumors appear, the events are as described above.

Most importantly, it is not our intent to ask anyone to hang on for a replacement for the Model 978 as the quick development of a product with that level of complexity is simply not realistic. We are reviewing all possible options, but any decisions on another high-end processor will take time as the leading edge of advanced technology moves very quickly.

While this situation is the result of industry political considerations that were totally outside of our control, we deeply apologize to those of you who have waited for this product and have kept the faith.

At Outlaw we are all, of course, extremely frustrated. At the end of the day, a "perfect storm" of conditions negated virtually all of the efforts of the entire Outlaw team. However, our resolve has never been stronger or more focused than it is right now. We are continuing to investigate all avenues for replacing the Model 978 and are aggressively pursuing other products that are already under development.

To that point, we offer the following: While we do NOT have a substitute for the Model 978 at this time, there is another processor in the works which we quietly started with a different development partner and factory last fall. In comparison to the Model 978, this is an entry level processor that is simple to operate and it is targeted at our budget-minded customers. It not only covers the basics and a bit more, from a sonic perspective this new processor will be an over-achiever.

During Scott's recent trip to China he visited this second factory to monitor the project's progress. He was pleased to report that the processor was actually ahead of schedule. While we planned to remain quiet about this processor until it was closer to completion, the accelerated schedule allows us to tip our hand a bit earlier than scheduled. Originally slated for introduction in the first quarter of 2013, if all continues to go well, we will ship this unit sometime in the fourth quarter of this year.

Once again, we apologize to those who were eagerly anticipating delivery of the Model 978 as we are keenly aware of the frustration you have endured while waiting patiently (and sometimes not so patiently) for this product. Please be assured that we have exhausted every possible alternative to find a way to deliver this processor to our customers. Ultimately, there could be no contingency plan in place for this unpredictable situation that was entirely due to factors outside of our control. While there is no denying that this has been a setback, we are more determined than ever to providing you with a number of great new products in the near future.

Sincerely,
Peter Tribeman
President, Outlaw Audio

This whole Outlaw announcement and eventual cancellation of so many products, to me, seems unprecedented and one wonders what is the realistic future of the company?

Its funny, despite the fact that I have purchased a number of pieces of Outlaw equipment over the years and been more than happy with them, this announcement of the cancellation of the 978 really came as no surprise. This was the THIRD(997,998 and now 978) such product announced and ultimately cancelled in the last three and a half years! One has to wonder, especially with this latest announcement, allegedly coming late in the game, what ever happened to the idea of binding contractual agreements?

This whole Outlaw announcement and eventual cancellation of so many products, to me, seems unprecedented and one wonders what is the realistic future of the company?

... this announcement of the cancellation of the 978 really came as no surprise. This was the THIRD(997,998 and now 978) such product announced and ultimately cancelled in the last three and a half years! One has to wonder, especially with this latest announcement, allegedly coming late in the game, what ever happened to the idea of binding contractual agreements?

This whole Outlaw announcement and eventual cancellation of so many products, to me, seems unprecedented and one wonders what is the realistic future of the company?