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#339864 - 02/24/11 11:48 AM QSC amps - M80v3
J. B. Offline
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Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Has anyone got this combination amp/spkr:
M80s with QSC GX3 or GX5 ?
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/gx/

I'm wondering if the amps can drive the speakers to realistic (live) levels with movies like ROTK or WOTW, stay stable and not clip, and still have some spare power.

A few months back i did have problems playing ROTK with the following equipment: Hafler 500 / Energy 22 Ref.
The Hafler went many times into protection mode for a few seconds, and i can tell you that it's not a very pleasant thing to experience. it's as if one would suddenly fall into a vacuum.

I did not have problems playing WOTW, but i think ROTK is more difficult because the very loud passages last for a much longer time than those found in WOTW.
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#339869 - 02/24/11 12:13 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: J. B.]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
If by “live” levels you mean movie theater reference levels then my Onkyo 3007 can drive my 3xM80s, 2xM2 (or 2xQS8s) and 4xQS8s that loud for over 16 hours w/o clipping or shutting down. I do this most weekends with marathon movie watching and/or gaming.

As a test I ran my whole system at and average SPL of 100dB playing GOA Trance music (rapid bass beat) for a half an hour w/o any problem. I then switched it to 2ch stereo M80s only and played for another hour and a half at 100dB w/o any problems. I had to bump it up to 105dB to finally to get the Onkyo to shut down due to heat after about 5 more minutes. Never clipped even at an average SPL of 105dB.

The M80s are pretty efficient and don’t need a lot of power to play very (hearing damage) loud.
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#339870 - 02/24/11 12:17 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: grunt]
Adrian Offline
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Registered: 12/27/08
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Loc: It's all about the location.
Charles(Zimm) uses a GX3 on his PSB's IIRC. He drops by on occasion.
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#339893 - 02/24/11 02:07 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: Adrian]
J. B. Offline
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Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
in practical terms, i don't know what loudness level is "reference" because my processor is very old (1980s) and only does "Dolby Surround".

i always set volume in such a way that it's a reflection of the movie's reality; i.e. if you take, for example, the scene at the beginning of WOTW where the Mustang goes around the corner flat out, the sound is adjusted so that the car's sound is realistic for the distance it appears to be; when that is set right, then everything else falls "into place". In reality, for me, every movie needs a different loudness level; there is a difference of a few dBs even between the 3 LOTR movies.
If there was "one" reference level, i would have found it a long time ago, and it would be a very good thing.
i have no idea how that would compare to "reference level" on a modern processor, but i will when, in a few months, i get a prepro.

i was extremely surprised when my amp went into protection mode, i thought that the power from the Hafler would be good enough for watching any movie, but i was wrong and now i want to be sure it will not happen again.

so, in essence, you say (grunt) that with the higher sensitivity of the M80s i should not have any problem, right?
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#339897 - 02/24/11 02:25 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: J. B.]
alan Offline

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Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3264
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hello J.B.,

Keep in mind that the Energy 22, as good as it was in its time, is a simple 2-way speaker with just two drivers, so it wasn't very efficient and needed lots of power. Nor could it cleanly handle very loud SPL levels because of the limitation of any 2-way speaker. The M80 has 6 drivers, so it's considerably more efficient and able to handle high power levels. I don't recall the output of the Hafler but if it was shutting down, then you may have exceeded its output capability because of the Energy's power demands.

Regards,
Alan
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#339899 - 02/24/11 02:26 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: J. B.]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Thanks for clarifying what you meant by “realistic.” I’m assuming that even though you want “realistic” that you also don’t want to permanently damage your hearing. For example the aircraft I work on idles at 114dB measured standing underneath it. With just two engines running at TRT it’s pushing 125dB while standing 50 feet out front of it. I’ve measure some fighters at 140dB from 100 meters away kicking in their afterburners climbing out. The same would go for realistic gunshots, cannon fire and explosions. If you have an SPL meter measure what you consider to be the optimal SPL for some sound effects and compare them to the SPL of similar real world sounds and that will give you an idea of highest SPL you will need to get the realism you want. You can then look for speaker/amp combos that will get you to the level you want. It may turn out you need a speaker even more efficeint than the M80s like some Klipsch speakers.

Quote:

so, in essence, you say (grunt) that with the higher sensitivity of the M80s i should not have any problem, right?

Theoretically (see above). The M80s will easily play loud enough with a midrange receiver (probably lower) to permanently damage your hearing very quickly. So if you want to play them louder with a separate amp they will be loud enough for any “sane” HT use.
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#339933 - 02/24/11 05:38 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: grunt]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
when i set the vol. level on a movie the way i described it above, i know that canon fire will not be at their "natural" levels, because the sound tracks, even the best ones, are compressed.

if i was to set levels at 140 dB for the fighter/100 meters/afterburner on or for the cannon shots in Master and Commander (assuming it would be possible), anyone talking softly in other parts of the movie would be yelling, like i saw once in a movie theater where they were showing a Star Trek movie; so, most of the time i set levels on voices and good references like the Mustang in WOTW.

The great majority of the time, my amp puts out about 1 watt/ch.
The times where the SPLs are very high usually last a very short time, and that will not impair or damage my hearing.

Whether this way gives sound levels similar to or near that of Reference Levels as calibrated with prepros, i don't know.


Edited by J. Bellemare (02/24/11 05:50 PM)
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#339935 - 02/24/11 05:49 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: alan]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: alan
Hello J.B.,

Keep in mind that the Energy 22, as good as it was in its time, is a simple 2-way speaker with just two drivers, so it wasn't very efficient and needed lots of power. Nor could it cleanly handle very loud SPL levels because of the limitation of any 2-way speaker. The M80 has 6 drivers, so it's considerably more efficient and able to handle high power levels. I don't recall the output of the Hafler but if it was shutting down, then you may have exceeded its output capability because of the Energy's power demands.

Regards,
Alan


thank you for the info.
i don't remember exactly how many watts the Hafler puts out, i know it's around 325 W/ch continuous/8 Ohms, and around 500 into 4 Ohms (those are not published figures, but results of a test published at the time in either Stereo Review or High Fidelity Magazine).
the only figure i know for sure is a measurement i made with an oscilloscope once with a short burst and it gave me around 735 W/ch/5.5 Ohms.
just before the Hafler went in protection mode, i clearly sensed there was some compression and clouding in the sound, a clear indication of overdriving.
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#339944 - 02/24/11 08:15 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: J. B.]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
when you people adjust your volume to Reference Level to watch a movie, does it give you the kind of results i describe in my post above ?
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#339946 - 02/24/11 08:20 PM Re: QSC amps - M80v3 [Re: J. B.]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
J., I hate to break it to you, but it's not just that they're compressed, it's that most of the sound effects are just that, effects! If you hear someone punch someone else, it's probably someone hitting a steak with a mic close up next to it. I would wager that explosions are all done digitally now, and that Mustang engine probably wasn't real either.
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