Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Any reason i should use a sub with the M80's?

For strict 2 channel stereo?
OK, yes i'm sitting here waiting for my guitar money, till next week, and have nothing better to due. But i was just playing music on the broke Polks...I have to be REAL careful about the volume..have to jump up to turn it down, if the bad driver pop's. That pretty much drives me nuts!!!

But ..I "assume" 2 6.5 drivers with the right ports will give me the bass i'm looking for. Even the broke Polks work to a point...and do give out bass..but it's driving me insane...LOL

I understand if there is no real answer, until i get the speakers in the house. But the broken Polks are driving me nuts...so i thought i would ask .

Unless you listen to lots of music with deep bass (read pipe organ, kettle drum) then the M80s rock the bass department. I listen to Goa Trance music when working out (ok sometimes Viking Metal) which has a very rapid bass and midbass beat and the M80s do it just right. IMO you won’t miss a subwoofer except for the deep Low Frequency Effects (LFE) of movies. I’ve even, a couple of times, forgotten I turned my subwoofer off until I put in a movie I knew had certain LFE and noticed it wasn’t as pronounced.

I watch a lot of movies with nothing but my m60s pumping out the bass and it is quite satisfying. The sub only gets turned on when the wife isn't home, or she gives me the ok. For music in 2 channel, I think you will find the bass is great even for hip hop. And that's with m60s. M80s have even more bass.

When I listen to 2 channel my M80's deliver excellent bass.

I agree with all comments.

Hi,
You will be amazed by the bass quality and output of the M80. Under a limitless power or close; they can be shockingly good. I clearly remember when I first powered them with the Axiom A1400-8; I was sure that I had my sunbwoofer on. I had to walk to it to be sure that it was off. And, at that time, the A1400-8 was replacing a powerful refernce Mark Levinson No 23.5 (400 watts per channel at 4 Ohms); never under-estimate the effect of abundant clean power.

For stereo the m80's work fine without a sub. I wouldn't go without a sub for a surround system though.

I second, for movies, a powerful subwoofer reproducing the LFE channel information is absolutely required. My remarks were for two channel music reproduction.

Yeh ,I find a little bit ( touch ) more Umph that's why I was questioning if a EP400 would be good.
Just enough for music to free up some amp power and with the 8" drivers I thought would compliment theM80's well for music.
Specially when listening to Norah ( hot ) Joans type music

I would definitely vote against an ep400 in a room of your size.

Hi,

The subwoofer model to select should be based on the volume of the entire room including adjacent opened ones. The Axiom EP400 was designed and built to give true real deep bass for small enclosed area; bedroom or den. If it is your case it would be a great choice; if not opt for the EP500 which is not much more expensive but can pressurize much larger space.

Again, if you are just listening in stereo I think you will find the m80's to be sufficient. Try them, and if you need more you can add a sub later.

Given he is not looking for a sub for movies just music and definatly not looking for floor shaking bottom end , just enough to hear a little more depth in the music.
Given that it is 500 watts and goes down to 17 hz, well below what is needed and 106db another well more volumn than needed. Two of these suckers probably do fine, just enough to bring up the bottom end a tad more. Two 8's are better than a 10" and Ep500 and up would be over kill,

What about the Martin Logan Descent 1? I heard that a couple months ago and that kicked some A$$

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not a big fan of subs for stereo setups, altho some speakers just need them (mostly electrostatic types) I'll just play with the placement, since there are back firing ports. I'll start off with them 6" off the back wall (which is probably too close) then walk them out.

I didn't "think" they should need a sub, but thought i should ask. I'm not familiar with speakers that have back firing ports, which i "assume' will effect the bass, depending on placement.

Axiom says the minimum distance from the back ports to the wall for the M80s is about 2 inches; you could start there.

mixed this up with another thread as I have no idea how big your rooms is...

I have my m80's 12" from the wall and they provide excellent bass for stereo listening. I'd say give it a try and then add a sub if you feel it is needed, but I' don't think you will.

The room is about 14X28, it's a basement area, with a dropped ceiling about 7.5' high. The wall the stereo sits on is only 10' long as the door to the room is there. The old Polks are sitting at 12" off the back wall. Probably were the M80's will end up, but i figured might as well try stuff out.

Just a note; when measuring speakers for placement you should be measuring from the back wall to the front (baffle) of the speaker. On side wall measurements you go from the wall to the center of the driver.

OK...I've never heard of anybody measuring like that. Don't know of any speaker company telling you to measure like that...News to me. A 12" measurment off the back wall, means, 1 foot from the back of the cab..at least to me...

same here bob.

Yeah, seems strange to me, but what do i know. I haven't bought new speakers in 25 years..LOL The Polks are pretty easy to place and 1' off the back wall and 1' off the side wall works fine for these. The M80's on the other hand, people seem to think placement will effect the sound stage big time. Guess i should just start with my stock placement and see what happens.

The Polks need to face strait ahead. Maybe the M80's need a little toe out, or in..sort of speak, to make the soundstage right? But again..I have no clue.

The old Polks are a different type of speaker. They do fill the room with sound. But i see no reason the M80's should not do the same. The cab dimentions are different, as the Polks are a tad higher at 44" and wider. But the M80's are a lot deeper at 17".

I'm not sure that the total cab volume is not close on both.
The port thing i have no clue about. The placement....I'm not sure about. I see no reason why i should not fire these strait ahead, like the polks. To fill the room with sound. The placement on the back wall may be an issue...that makes more sence to me. But again, all i can do is try them out in my stock position..then work from there.

"But again, all i can do is try them out in my stock position..then work from there."

That is a very good idea.

And nobody says that you have to dial them in in 20 minutes. Take your time, experiment. Most important thing is to enjoy the experimentation and not to fre too much about it.

It depends on what you are measuring FOR. Rick's right in that the distance from the center/front of the woofer to the floor, to the side wall and to the rear wall matter (theoretically). You're not supposed to have any two of those the same, IIRC.

I'd agree that when most people are talking about distance "behind" the speaker, they are probably talking about from the wall to the back of the speaker. A foot is way plenty for the ports.

Most people think a little toe-in can be beneficial. You just have to experiment in your room.

Bob, this is very basic and has been discussed here(and elsewhere)many times over the years. The sound comes from the center of the drivers, not from the side or back of the enclosure. To minimize the peaks and valleys from reflections from the nearest room surfaces(two walls and floor)piling up at the same frequencies, distances from them to the center of the woofer cones should be unequal.

That is how I have heard to measure as well.

Another tip that I am currently using works for rectangular rooms. Take the distance from the front of the speakers to the front wall and multiply by 1.6 to get the distance that the speakers should be from the side walls. If your speakers are one meter from the front of the speaker to the front wall, put the speakers 1.6 meters from the side walls. I understand that this may not be possible due to having to place the speakers on a long wall instead of a short wall or because of furniture placement, etc. Try it if you can.