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#345384 - 04/18/11 02:51 PM New HT Design Help
digsvb Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 17
We are designing a new home with the HT incorporated into the main floor great room. Component visibility is a huge issue. I have learned a lot from reading the forums over the last month and am now ready to submit my project for everyone’s review. Since the system will be built into the house (not a cabinet), this will be a major commitment with little opportunity for adjustment after installation.

Apologies for the length, but I have tried to provide every detail I can think of in this original post.

Please comment/suggest/critique any and all details you care to. Thanks in advance for everyone’s help!

Great Room Description:
Size 16' x 28' w/ open back wall
Ceiling - Tray ceiling 9' high on perimeter, 10' high in center
West wall - all glass
North wall - open to dining and kitchen - roughly 50'
South wall - TV/fireplace/L/R/C in cabinet speakers
East wall - all open
HT/Music ratio – 70/30

Proposed system:
EMO XPA-3 (or 2?)
EMO XPA-5 (w/ a 6.1 this gives capacity for distributed audio)
L/R - M80 in cabinet
Ctr - VP180 in cabinet
L/R Surrounds - QS8
Rear - M2/M22/VP100 in wall (undecided)
Sub - EP175 (reuse 1 old and add one new?)

M3's - outdoor
In ceiling for kitchen - undetermined


What is best for this room? - 5.1/6.1/7.1
(a local “expert” commented that the room might be too lively for anything beyond 5.1)

I currently own one EP175 and plan to buy another instead of one large sub.

Each sub must be located below an M80 to fit in the space allowed – is it ok to locate inside the cabinet?

M80 height is 2’ from the floor - must give up subs to go lower.

VP180 is 6’ from the floor ... plan to tilt approx -10 degrees

> mounted on side wall of tray ceiling at 9' high and 10’ spread
> mount w/ brackets tilted down or flush mount?
> how far behind couch based on height and spread ?

Rear (if used)
> 2-M2’s in wall for rears? How far apart? also mounted on tray ceiling side wall – 9’ height
> Single M2 or M22 or VP100 for 6.1?
> If used, M2/M22 in wall must be mounted sideways – would a VP100 be better suited?

> Better to put L/R/C on same amp (XPA-3)
> Could go with same amp for fronts XPA-2 and put CTR on XPA-5
> The XPA-3/XPA-5 combo in a 6.2 system gives me capacity to run distributed audio on main floor

Existing equipment for re-use – maybe in lower level den/exercise room:
Harman Kardon AVR335 (7 x 65W)

#345389 - 04/18/11 03:50 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: digsvb]
CatBrat Offline

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I don't think that dual EP175's would work in this room. Also from past experience, the sub woofers usually work much, much better when off to the sides, instead of at the front of the room.

#345390 - 04/18/11 04:33 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: CatBrat]
bdpf Offline

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Dig, Welcome!

You've come to the wrong forum as every time someone comes with a plan, a budget and WAF expectations, either we go out of the budget, or (if you're strong) you're able to convince the wife and change your plan, or if the wife wins, you KNOW that you'll have a system that will have some compromises laugh

Considering that you do mostly movies, I would suggest you considering the EP500 (I know, it's easy to suggest when it's not your money smile ) or at least the EP350. The M80s have very good bass on their own, the EP175 doesn't really go lower and would not really bring anything extra.

I don't think putting the sub inside an enclosure is a good idea neither, you're better off to have a sub try to fit the decor as best as you can but outside.

With a room like yours, I would go 7.1 with M2s for the rears. The M2s are pretty low profile and I don't really understand why you want to put them on their side but it's not a good idea. If you really can't place them vertically, then go with 6.1 with the VP100 in the back. You would probably get some benefit from going with the VP150 as 17ft from the back wall to the couch is a pretty big distance and I would think the VP150 would play louder, filling the space better (note that I have never heard the VP100 and I might be wrong)

Edited by bdpf (04/18/11 04:40 PM)
"The problem is choice..."

#345396 - 04/18/11 05:30 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: bdpf]
digsvb Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 17
1) Subs

The subs are not going in the room. It is non-negotiable. My best option may be to go without and "power up" the M80's.

Alan wrote an article espousing the benefits of multiple subs. Since I already have one, and the size fits the space allowed, I was considering the two EP175's. An EP350 might fit in the space. Figured to set the Xover fairly low and go for effects only. I would not use them for music.

2) Rears

The rears must be mounted in the side wall of the tray ceiling at a 9' height. The limited surface area would require an inwall M2 or M22 be turned sideways to fit in the space - that's why a center channel speaker seemed logical. VP150 incabinet would be viable. That approach leaves me with amp channels for other parts of the house. I could forget the rear - save some $'s and avoid grief from the wife when she sees a speaker that she didn't know about.

#345397 - 04/18/11 05:33 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: digsvb]
digsvb Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 17
Forgot to add that mounting "painted to match" QS's on the side wall was a HUGE compromise on her part.

#345399 - 04/18/11 06:06 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: digsvb]
J. B. Offline

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
does HAF exist too?
or: Axiom Gallery

#345403 - 04/18/11 07:48 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: J. B.]
digsvb Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 17
Even afer a few compromises, I figure I'm getting a pretty good deal - top of the line Axiom speakers, all new components, not to mention the new flat screen - and no hassles with the $'s since it's all buried in the house construction budget.

HAF? I'm there.

#345404 - 04/18/11 08:30 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: digsvb]
autoboy Offline

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 122
Loc: Palo Alto, California
Your wife is overly sensitive to the exposed speakers. She really won't notice them much. Mine complained, but we weren't married yet so she really couldn't mount too big of a battle. She's forgotten about it and enjoys them now.

The 175 sub will be worthless with the M80s in there, especially in that BIG of a room. You'll want to look at subs that are small yet powerful. The only powerful subs that Axiom makes are the 350 and up. With a room as big as your's, you'll need a truely massive sub in order to really fill it with tactile bass. Their smaller subs are for small rooms and pairs with their small speakers. That said, the M80s should fill it with enough bass to be very enjoyable on their own. You'll miss out on the tactile, pounding bass that wakes up your house.

I'm not sure a truely hard hitting low end is appropriate in an open great room. Look at all those open doorways. It's a sure way to get yelled at by the wife.

The rear speaker placement is really far back. I don't think you will get much stereo separation back there from 2 m2's. You could go single vp100 back there but either will be fine IMO.

#345405 - 04/18/11 08:47 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: autoboy]
digsvb Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 17
Maybe a pair of EP500's if the house comes in under budget...I could always eliminate the garage.

#345406 - 04/18/11 09:09 PM Re: New HT Design Help [Re: digsvb]
CatBrat Offline

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I was just wondering. Is your wife the kind that likes to put little breakable nick-nacks everywhere, and put expensive dishes in glass covered cabinets, etc.

If so, then a decent sub will probably be out of the question.

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