Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Building a PC....

I know several of you have built your own PCs. I was looking on Newegg's site recently at PC kits, and I'm not getting any sense of any real savings. It seems like I would do as well buying an HP or Dell when it's on a good sale.

I'm looking to replace my Photoshop PC with one that has a reasonably fast processor, moderately-sized Primary drive (500GB is fine), standard DVD drive, a good-sized case that has room for a separate media drive, a good video card and 8-12GB of RAM. That's all pretty standard except for the RAM and maybe the upscale video card. What bugs me about Dell's site is that if you're choosing a setup with 6GB of RAM and want to up it to 12GB, that's like a $200+ upgrade charge....when you're really only adding another 6GB. I can buy a full 12GB matched set from Newegg for a total of ~$150.

Still, though, it seems to come out about the same in the end. I can get a Dell spec'd as I want, a lessor HP but replace the power supply, add a nice video card and the RAM, or build one from a kit, and the pricing seems about the same.

So what's the advantage of building one? Am I missing something?

I built mine about 2 years ago. My cost, about $2,000. Obviously, I didn't build mine to get it cheaper, although, I probably could have, but that was not my goal. I wanted as reliable and fast a computer that $2,000 would buy at the time. After 2 years, I'm still satisfied with my decision. It's fast and reliable. Also, having just experienced having a $2,000 laptop's motherboard go out on me right after the warranty expired was another reason. I wanted something that would be relatively easy to fix.

My honest recommendation is to go with a Dell but get the minimum RAM, and then order the rest from crucial.com or newegg.com. You don't get to deal with just one vendor for support if you build your own box.

That's what I was leaning towards.

Is there advantages to the RAM being "matched"? In other words, if I get a system with 6GB but want 12GB, should I buy the 12GB or just add 6GB more to the 6GB supplied?

(Assuming, of course that the RAM type/speed, etc... is the same and there are available slots)

There really isn't much (if any) cost savings building your own machine. The only way it works out is if you're trying to do something specialized and it requires you to either buy too many features you don't need, or pick from a high end line from the manufacturer.

What you do get when you build from parts is the ability to have exactly what you want, and have a machine made from standard parts, not the fully integrated system you'll get from a big name maker. The problem with the latter, that other than adding RAM and swapping a hard drive there's not much you can do with mass market PCs. They usually only have room for two HDs, and one optical drive. Their power supplies are often custom, and can't be replaced except with an identical part. Sometimes even if you don't order the maximum RAM the machine can be configured with, they'll still fill all the slots with smaller modules. So while technically you can upgrade the RAM, you have to throw out all that you already have. You also get the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

That said, it is ofter still easier to get a pre-built machine, use it until the warranty expires and then buy a new one. Even ones built from parts can only be upgraded so far before the new parts aren't compatible with the motherboard any longer.

Mark, no, as long as the sets are matched within themselves, you're fine. In other words, if the system uses triple channel RAM, you'll want to use 3 of the same kind, but the next 3 can be of a different kind.

Awesome.

Thanks to all of you for the information!

As always, I think the professional geeks got it covered.

Another issue is the OS. It seems like when you build your own machine, that extra $100 for Redmond throws the value proposition off. When Dell is selling basic machines for ~$300-400 including W7, how can you compete?

That being said, the machines I've built have been noticeably more reliable than the ones I've bought from Dell. But I tend to keep stuff past obsolescence.

My home built ones have been highly variable in terms of reliability. Then again, I was buying performance/overclocking parts, so I think they put more testing into making it fast than making it reliable.

Certainly, compatibility of parts is the biggest obstacle in discouraging me from doing a build. Well, that and time....

Eh, I wouldn't worry about part compatibility. Just choose good parts.

My opinion is that if you are looking for a home or small business class machine, it's tough to save by building unless you really scrutinize the parts and wait for deals.

However, if you are a gamer, have serious graphics needs or like to play with over clocking then it it is worth your while to build with the components that best match your needs and budget. It can really deep dive you into research mode though as it leads down a path of really having to research what makes motherboards, memory and other parts different from one another and also which ones play nice together and which may not.

Fun though if you are into that sort of thing. Nothing like that feeling of excitement vs. fear when you have to flip the switch on the power supply for the first time to see if it will actually work or set off the smoke alarm.

I was just pricing out a Dell XPS 9100 setup. It had 6GB Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz- 3 DIMMs and has 6 slots, so I could add another 12GB kit (4GBx3 DDR3 PC3-12800) from Crucial despite it being a different speed?

Crucial doesn't offer any 1333MHz RAM for the Dell....

I'd try very hard to keep the speed matched, just different makes are OK.

Wait until you get the thing, and see what brand RAM they used. Then search for those parts.

I remember I spent a lot of time reading the reviews on the newegg site.

Thanks, Chris.... that makes sense.

I've spent the last hour looking at video cards. They offer the GeForce G310, the Radeon HD 5670, 5870 and 5970.

Looking through reviews, it seems as though the GeForce and the 5670 are nothing great, and the 5870 and 5970 are overkill.

But it's hard to say, because most of the reviews are for gaming, and this will be used for Photoshop, Lightroom, & Portrait Professional only on a system that will likely have 12GB of RAM.

I'm not sure whether I'm over-looking or under-looking, but I get the feeling that I wish they had a card between those four....!

Hey, here's a question: I haven't been concerned with processor speed as much as RAM and the video card (many retouched photos, saved as a PSD with layers, run 350MB to 700MB in size). But maybe a faster processor negates some of the RAM and video card needs?

I don't want to end up with an "unbalanced" system.

My choices are an i7-930 (included), i7-960 ($470 add'l) or i7-990X ($1,000 add'l.... can't imagine i need THAT!).

Any thoughts on where I should put resources for a PS computer? Processor, memory or video card?

I put the GeForce GTX260 in mine. I've been satisfied with it, but it's been overkill for what I've needed.

Get an nVidia GTX 285 video card. That's the cheapest one that will provide the most compatible acceleration with Adobe's products.

What ever processing is not picked up by the GPU, which is still quite a lot, will fall on the CPU. So if you don't like waiting for filters to run upgrade the CPU. If you're patient keep the stock model.

RAM will allow you to have more, larger files open at one time before starting to swap to the to hard disk. When you're swapping you'll hit about a 1000x speed penalty. So make sure you have enough RAM. 6 GB should be enough, 12 is definitely enough. (32 GB is insane, and anyone who puts that much in a home machine shouldn't be trusted.)

Somehow I get the feeling you have 32GB in your home machine.

Chris, are you referring to the Mercury Playback Engine? If so, I have a 3800 in my edit system for that, but I didn't think Photoshop or Lightroom leaned into that the way Premiere, etc, does for video work?

I take it back...it DOES seem that PS makes use of the Mercury Playback CUDA cards.

Now I can't find a Dell that has one! UGH!

You could get one with a crap video card, and add your own. But then you're still paying for something you won't use.

This is why we build machines from the pieces we really want.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that now. I can't even find much in stock anywhere for the 285 or even the 470.

I really wonder how much of a difference there is with CUDA-enabled cards if you're ONLY using it with Photoshop....

Only Photoshop, probably not much.

I use CaptureOne, and until version 5 it was all CPU. But in 5 they added CUDA support. Even with my old 8800 GTS 512 it cut the raw processing time down from 5 seconds an image to less than 1 second.

Don't EVER pay for a video card on a Dell build--or any other manufacturer. Ridiculously overpriced.

Why a 285? Aren't those a tad long in the tooth?

I was saying that was the minimum card with the required functions. Any newer model built to the same level (not low-ball or mobile) would also work.

I think I'd go with a 570 or a 580, myself.

So, do I avoid Dell or are you saying get the minimum card, throw it out and upgrade it myself?

Get the minimum.

Mark - I ended up buying a ZT machine from Costco.com about two months ago for $600. So far it has been trouble free. It's faster than hell. The only software the ZT machines come with is the operating system, so you don't have to deal with all that Dell or HP bullshit. The machine I bought has 12 gig ram and a 2T hard drive. I use it for Lightroom and CAD primarily. No idea what the video card is, but it seams to work just fine for my needs. I also picked up a 27" Samsung LED screen for about $200 at Costco last time I was wandering around looking for paper towels. I forgot the paper towels.....

I thought you only bought wine at Costco?

I'll check Sam's Club....!

Costco rules. Had two slices of their pepperoni pizza for lunch today, and a 55¢ fountain Coke.

JP, you know how to turn any topic around to what you had for lunch. I like that about you!

The ZT machines are only offered on-line at costco.com. They come with free shipping from the manufacture. I don't buy wine there, much. Lot's of Crown Royal though.