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#351681 - 07/12/11 06:03 AM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: INANE]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: INANE

Obama is completely flipping on this one. He's on a crusade for massive tax hikes now. Even thou history repeatedly shows that tax cuts usually create tax revenues and hikes do the reverse.

Evidence? Stating something does not make it true.

As far as unions go, without the union movement we would not have the working conditions we do now. Just look at the working conditions of your average industrial worked in the lat 1800s and early 1900s. While I am no fan of the '70s style auto unions, to paint the whole union movement with the same brush shows a lack of understanding of the history of industrialization and the union movement.

You should be concerned about a concentration of power by any group: government, private enterprise, unions. Indeed, your founding fathers were very concerned about this in regards to government and attempted to create a constitution that would prevent such power concentration in government.
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Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#351692 - 07/12/11 08:36 AM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: fredk]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3596
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: INANE

Obama is completely flipping on this one. He's on a crusade for massive tax hikes now. Even thou history repeatedly shows that tax cuts usually create tax revenues and hikes do the reverse.

Evidence? Stating something does not make it true.

As far as unions go, without the union movement we would not have the working conditions we do now. Just look at the working conditions of your average industrial worked in the lat 1800s and early 1900s. While I am no fan of the '70s style auto unions, to paint the whole union movement with the same brush shows a lack of understanding of the history of industrialization and the union movement.

You should be concerned about a concentration of power by any group: government, private enterprise, unions. Indeed, your founding fathers were very concerned about this in regards to government and attempted to create a constitution that would prevent such power concentration in government.


First Cam, and now, I totally agree with Fred.

JP, JP! What's happening to me?
_________________________
Always call the place you live a house. When you're old, everyone else will call it a home.

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#351699 - 07/12/11 10:42 AM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: BobKay]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6469
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Hmm. Better tinker with the meds. Double up on the red one and stop the blue one.
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Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.

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#351734 - 07/12/11 02:57 PM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: medic8r]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6874
Loc: It's all about the location.
Unions began to improve working conditions and present certain working standards(hours, age, workload, safety ect). At some point they got that all confused with extortion. I don't feel that anyone hired by the tax payers should be allowed to strike.
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#351738 - 07/12/11 04:13 PM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: medic8r]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3596
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: medic8r
Hmm. Better tinker with the meds. Double up on the red one and stop the blue one.


Worked brilliantly! You are a genius!

Now I don't care at all about anything that's happening to me.

You should do this for a living.
_________________________
Always call the place you live a house. When you're old, everyone else will call it a home.

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#351922 - 07/15/11 04:59 PM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: BobKay]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3115
Loc: CA, USA
Yes, unions certainly had a positive effect on the British automobile industry. Oh, wait, no ... they killed it. Sorry.

Yes, but unions certainly had a positive effect on the American automobile industry. Oh, wait, no ... they're trying to kill it.

The trade union paradigm is class warfare between the working class and the bourgeoisie. Shoddy build quality by British auto workers were acts of resistance to greedy capitalists. How do you think that worked out in the end?

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, labor unions worked for safer conditions, reduced hours and higher wages and benefits. Those functions are now satisfied by the US government.

Now, organized labor competes with non-union labor and attempts to squeeze the latter out of the marketplace.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend. MT
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#351948 - 07/16/11 11:51 PM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: Adrian]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1693
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Adrian
Unions began to improve working conditions and present certain working standards(hours, age, workload, safety ect). At some point they got that all confused with extortion. I don't feel that anyone hired by the tax payers should be allowed to strike.


exactly
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#352060 - 07/19/11 07:26 AM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: 2x6spds]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Yes, unions certainly had a positive effect on the British automobile industry. Oh, wait, no ... they killed it. Sorry.

Yes, but unions certainly had a positive effect on the American automobile industry. Oh, wait, no ... they're trying to kill it.

The trade union paradigm is class warfare between the working class and the bourgeoisie. Shoddy build quality by British auto workers were acts of resistance to greedy capitalists. How do you think that worked out in the end?

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, labor unions worked for safer conditions, reduced hours and higher wages and benefits. Those functions are now satisfied by the US government.

Now, organized labor competes with non-union labor and attempts to squeeze the latter out of the marketplace.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend. MT


I'm finding less and less to enjoy at this site.

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#352093 - 07/19/11 03:19 PM Re: I have to ask...of Americans (at my own risk) [Re: davidsch]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
Stay away from political posts and set users who piss you off on ignore. You'll be happier.
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

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