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#355993 - 10/02/11 04:26 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: jakewash]
axiom_man Offline
devotee

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, Cana...
yeh, ok
but I thought if you have speakers set to small that the crossover is set to 100 automatically.

Even so, if you have the M80's whynot leave them at Lagre and set your crossover to 40 in the AV and instead of setting main+LFE just set the setting to LFE.

Once I ave this theatre room setup next year I am going to have me some real good sound tests. With the M&K's and subs and then M80's.
_________________________
Pioneer sc-1525
M80 HG Cherry

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#355996 - 10/02/11 04:57 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: axiom_man]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5404
Loc: Marion, IA
I was with you for a LONG time on the large vs. small setting. I had things set to large and really liked it for a full sound for stereo music listening, but if I wanted more punch, I'd force the sub into the mix. For movies, I messed around with the large setting for a long time before finding that those crazy THX folks must have figured something out and unless you have subs built in to your front speakers, small sounded better.

There is logic behind it, and a lot of people get stuck on the words "large" and "small"...

Bass Management Guide part 1

I love the quote from the above article:
Quote:
People have a psycological difficulty with the word SMALL. They have spent good money on their front speakers and get insulted when the AVR sets them to SMALL. Remember that this is not a personal insult against you or your speakers. My Definitive Technology front speakers have 15" built-in subwoofers with built-in 300 watt amplifiers. In addition to those, I have six external subwoofers in my HT room. When I set the front speakers to SMALL, the quality of the sound (both music and movies) improves.

and
Quote:

It is helpful to redefine the words SMALL and LARGE to:

LARGE = The speakers are not Bass Managed.
SMALL = The speakers are Bass Managed.



The rest of the info on the subject can be found here:
Bass Management part 2

If you want more information, albeit from the Audyssey folks, read this blog article:
Small vs. Large
I like this quote from the blog:
Quote:
Here is a better rule: All speakers are Small. In today’s complicated AVR lingo that just means: If you have a subwoofer you should always turn bass management on. Always. Even if your receiver clings to the past and automatically sets your speakers to Large.


Good luck!
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#355997 - 10/02/11 05:09 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: axiom_man]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: axiom_man
Even so, if you have the M80's whynot leave them at Lagre and set your crossover to 40 in the AV and instead of setting main+LFE just set the setting to LFE.

By setting them to large, the setting LFE or LFE+main has no effect, it becomes automatically LFE+mains. So the M80s will get all the frequencies and tried to play them. Before I had a sub, I had them set to large, I was showing them off to a friend and played the first 5 min of Percy Jackson and the Olympians at 0dB on the receiver. When Poseidon first steps on land, I heard one of my woofers starting to rattle. I think I damaged it during this time as the woofers were trying to play frequencies that they can't handle. I think that when you have no sub, even the LFE is sent to the mains, at least it sure feels like it as the M80s alone were able to shake my hardwood floor pretty well.
If what you're trying to achieve is M80s playing from 40Hz up and the sub taking over playing 40Hz down, set them to small and LFE only. That's the way I have mine setup and like it like that.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#356028 - 10/02/11 09:38 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: bdpf]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
With a "large" setting, a crossover for the mains is generally unavailable and they play full-range. If no sub is in use they also play any LFE that is occasionally present during movies. The large setting also makes the LFE+Mains(or Plus, Double, etc.)setting available when a sub is used. The sub then plays any LFE by itself and also plays any bass in the mains channels below the mains crossover set simultaneously with the main speakers.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#356030 - 10/02/11 09:51 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: JohnK]
axiom_man Offline
devotee

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, Cana...
OK,
thanks guys ...things seem to be meshing together now abit more.

Even thought the AV says set to small, it is not small as in the speakers are in a physical sense.
Basically, it is setting your ability to run bass management, because it detected a sub.
So I can crossover still at 40 or 50 hrz with the M80's and let the sub do the down low.
Where as if I had M22 well maybe they will be better with a 60 - 80 crossover and are actually a small speaker.

But, if I have no sub ( music) and M80's then it would stay large and play all the frequencies.
_________________________
Pioneer sc-1525
M80 HG Cherry

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#356036 - 10/02/11 10:19 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: axiom_man]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
In my Denon, you can have different settings for multi channel and stereo listening. You could set multi channel to whatever cross over you like best and stereo to full range if you wish.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#356041 - 10/02/11 10:49 PM Re: MCACC from Pioneer. [Re: bdpf]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5404
Loc: Marion, IA
Yea, if you have no sub, then feel free to leave them as large and see how they do. I remember hearing Randy's (SirQuack's) M80s a few years back with no subs turned on (he had like 3 in the room) and I couldn't believe how well they did as "large" speakers. I swore that at least one sub was turned on.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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