Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Improving Axioms

If Axiom were to improve their speakers, what improvements would you suggest?

Free dancing girls with every pair of M80s?

Cupholders.

OK, serious answer is I don't know exactly. Improving the sound is something that probably consumes most of Ian's time and I suspect gains in this area don't come easily, or possibly without cost.

Axiom could spend money on updating the styling, but that again comes at a cost.

If you add those two together you get something like Paragdigms Signature line. Look at the cost there.

Oooooh! Good idea. That way when you duct tape them into your bigrig ...

I was thinking of an icebox/door on the back of the M80, what do you think?

Ok....enuff frivolity!


Count me in on the curvy cabinet group.

Great question Sarang.
It used to be that people wanted real wood options, and look, we've had that now for a little while. Just goes to show that Axiom listens to the customer base and future suggestions. I don't know what they should do different. They offer a wide product line, with a bunch of finishes, and the design is solid sonically, so only minor tweaks are made to the design. I think that the biggest thing that I've heard or thought is the physical design of the cabinets *could* be updated a little bit, but that would probably cost more too.

For me, I like them as is. :-)

Can't think of anything.

I know, I know......

On/in wall M80's. Maybe not sound as good as the floorstanders, but it they could get more of that low to midbass than the M22 on/in wall without the shrillness I've experienced from the on/wall M22. It just might be a weiner...

W[M^T]W horizontal centre channel or JohnK's similar driver complement for a horizontal centre properly executed.

I think Axiom hits the sweet spot when it comes to price/performance.
While the cabinet could certainly be more fancy (therefore increasing the cost), they are not by all means bad looking speakers, specially for those that can afford the real wood veneer and now on the V3s without the pin holes thanks to the magnetic grills.
There is 2 cosmetic changes that I would like to have that wouldn't necessarily bring the cost up. The first is that it would be nice if Axiom would find a way to keep the hex screws that attach the drivers more recessed into the cabinet instead of sticking out the way they do, the speakers would look nicer. The second is that while on most Axiom speakers the drivers are recessed into the cabinet and almost flush with the face, it is not the case for the top and bottom drivers of the QS8s, the drivers sticks out of the cabinet. Whenever I can (or let say whenever my 2 year old is not around for a few days), I like to have the grills off. I then remove all the grills except the top and bottom of the QS8s, it just doesn't look good seeing these drivers sticking out the way they do.
These are 2 minor things but to me the speakers would look much nicer if it would be changed.

I vote for continuing to improve each existing product as they currently do.

I would like to see a new 2 channel amp to come out that knocks the socks off the competition.

I'd like to see a beefier version of the QS8's able to play a bit lower in the Hz. Kind of like they did with the VP-180 but maybe not on quite that scale.

A QS10 will do - no need for a QS180!

Some cheaper wood speaker stands would be welcome, and outriggers for the tower speakers are mentioned quite often. I'm still waiting to see QS4/QS8 speakers with a mounting option similar to the M0 On-Walls.

Like David, I definitely want to see them come back with new amplifiers.

As it is, I'm going to be spending more money with what they already offer. I'm going to try a VP180 sometime soon and see if I can be satisfied with a horizontal center channel. I'll probably end up with a second, assuming it meets my needs, whenever my system ends up in the basement. I'll probably end up with a pair of the on-walls or whatever in the bathroom, too... eventually. In the meantime, I'm certainly enjoying what I already have. It's still fun to show my system off to guests.

I'd like to see this, too. Not that I feel dissatisfied with the QS8s. I just want to see if I can actually tell a difference.

I'd want Ian to invent a time machine, travel forward 50 years, and bring back Axiom's then-current speaker technology to our time.

Winner!

^^^^^^^
Yes yes yes
I don't post much but that is the best idea so far. A center channel that has GREAT on AND off axis response in a must. I have to admit that my 150 was a disappointment. However the m2 that replaced it is fabulous!! Now just put a bass driver on either side of the m2!

I'm quite sure Ian considered many different driver and cabinet configurations while developing the VP180. So, product-line-wise, I'm not sure if you're looking for a replacement of the VP150 or something else? Because I think it's pretty clear they don't need to market 4 center channels.

"Improvement" is obviously subjective. I agree with most of what's already been written. Since this wasn't really titled as a "new product" thread, I suppose we're looking for "how can current products be 'better'". Speakers really only do a couple things to begin with - emit sound, and provide a visual appeal.

So, you obviously want them to sound better and look better, right. Well, Ian is constantly working to make them sound better in the context of their established market niche and business philosophy. We've seen those incremental changes over the years. And introduction of the Custom Finish shop provides more flexibility than virtually any other manufacturer, certainly at this price point.

So, I don't see how you could have meaningful "improvement" without fundamentally altering the basic nature of the products. On a certain level, if you don't like the way Axiom speakers already look or sound, I don't think it's terribly likely that any "improvements" are going to change your mind.

Yes, as Dr. Horse(Blue Jays)mentioned above, we've discussed several times such a center speaker for those who want a horizontal appearance/fit, not as big/expensive as the VP180, but with wide, smooth dispersion. The W T/M W configuration is available from several competitors, and a good design at a moderate cost could replace the VP100 and/or VP150.

A redesign of the metal stands, or maybe some wood stands, for the QS series. IMHO the metal stands look kinda goofy and bottom heavy. Although well constructed and functional it's alot of stand for a speaker of it's size.

Floyd Toole discusses this in Sound Reproduction in a section on horizontal centre channels and how a properly WM^TW with a dedicated midrange is a superior design for wide, smooth dispersion and for best consistent performance from listening room to listening room. He really stresses the importance off-axis and the polar response and how other driver complements are flawed in this regard because they suffer from off-axis interference which can be audible and is non-optimal. He discusses that the WM^TW can eliminate this problem.

At the risk of showing my ignorance, I've often wondered why they don't have an "M32" (2x 6.5 divers) for those who are toally committed to the no sub sound, but can't afford or don't want the towers.

I'd guess they tried it and didn't like it. But it's hard to say. That would be one BIG bookshelf, though.

What about a 3 way? 6.5 + 3.5 + tweet.

An M631, or M136.

Now, that might be a good combo for a behind the screen L/C/R in an in-cabinet form.

Gawd, a 3-way WOULD be sweet if the hardware were correct.

More ports, fewer binding posts?

It would be about 22". Big, but not *that* much bigger than the V22. Of couse, it would just be a small M50, and they probably don't want to have competing models with that little difference ...

... so maybe a 3 way like someone said; but why not a 1/5.25/6.5? They must have experimented with that. I'm curious why it didn't pan out.

This thread is great - lots of interesting ideas and excellent feedback - thanks for starting it!



We'd love to hear suggestions on this one. The challenge is of course having a design that lets the bottom woofer fire freely, and doesn't make the stand top&front heavy. Would something like a music stand's U-shaped support have more appeal, do you think? Or have you got any ideas already that might look more streamlined?

I totally understand the speaker is heavy and the bottom woofer does present a design challenge in a new type of stand. How about just wrapping the two posts in the same boston cherry covering as the speakers. That might get rid of some of the black and improve the WAF. Just a thought.

Ah, okay, so it isn't the two-poles-vs-one-pole. Gotcha.

Axioms in a "mirror" finish.

... with the woofer covered in silk.

...for silky smooth bass, and
ferrofluid in the mid drivers and tweeters...for liquid mids/highs. :-S

I wanna see a M100 flagship model. Priced around 3 to 5k and devastatingly bad ass. Full range with active sub in each tower.

That or a professional line of studio monitors.

That's an untapped market that Focal has taken great advantage of.

Ditto the Zappa Quoter.

Oh, I guess it's already started. solarrdadd posted the following on the Blu-ray.com forum:

Wow, really? That is nice!

A one pole design would look good if it could be done.

Real wood for the same price as the vinyl

A simple way to do it would be to have a base, one pole and on the top a plate to support the back of the QS8s with 2 anchors as found on the T-bracket.

So, I take it noone is into mirror finishes?

I think that would be so cool. Especially in locations where they are used for music only. Mirror finished M3s mounted on a wall with a white FMB.

I have enough problems with reflections...

REFLECT!

Further evidence Mark is a vampire.

With his woodworking skills, he could make quite the suicide stake.

Aluminum covered Axiom Speakers (Think M2 or M3 for music use only). Here's a video that shows how to turn aluminum into a polished mirror. Just go straight to the end, if you just want to see what polished aluminum looks like.

This is a great thread. We are constantly looking for ways to improve our products. We have our ongoing research into how to continuously make them sound better and we have all of the other various ideas, which to a large extent come from customer comments, as to how to make them just better. Creating “Customize Yours” allowed us to incorporate all kinds of suggestions that otherwise would be pretty much impossible to do because we would always have to decide if it would be something most customers would want. With “Customize Yours” we can incorporate things that maybe only a few people would want.

As noted earlier in this thread we recently redesigned the Power Bracket used with our on-wall products and incorporated it into the QS models. The QS models also have a binding post input if you are using them with our stands or Full Metal Bracket.

Shortly we will be introducing a feature to Customize Yours for matching your walls. There will be a place to input the brand, colour number, and finish of your wall paint and we will make your speakers to match. For specialty colours a sample can be sent to us and we will match it.

Ever since the introduction of the VP180 there has been much discussion of introducing a VP160 centre channel, and I see it has come up again in this thread. In light of this I think I will commit now to have this product ready for shipping in December. We will post some renderings of it in the next week or two.

There was some discussion here of a studio monitor. A lot of studios use our products now but to really have a true studio monitor is should be powered. It is our plan for some time in 2012 to bring out one or two of our models in a powered version as “Studio Monitors”.

We are also working very hard right now to have the amplifiers back by the end of December. It is going to be tight but we are close. It was a major redesign.

There is also something very new and very cool we have been working on for years that will be ready by the end of this year. It sits between your pre-amp and your main amp and is designed to work with the M80 v3 and the VP180 v3. Soon after it will be available for the M60 v3, M22 v3, VP150 v3, and the new VP160 v3. This is the major next leap forward in sound quality we have been working on for years. They don’t come along all that often so we are very excited about it. Expect a lot more information on this one at the beginning of October.

"There is also something very new and very cool we have been working on for years that will be ready by the end of this year. It sits between your pre-amp and your main amp..."

what would this "something" do in the system?
just a little hint would be nice Ian.

i'm adding this to help untie your lips: :-D

have a super day.

Ian, thanks for the updates!

Also, you're a tease!

It sits between my amp and my pre-amp. Dust?

Yeah. The edit button is still working. Too bad I don't have anything intelligent to say.

I'm definitely interested in the centre channel!

The first thing that came to my mind was some kind of active unit between the pre-amp and amp for fine tuning, adjustments/integration for the mains and sub. Like an active crossover comes to mind. But who knows?

BlueJays1,

It is a piece of smart electronics that we have written algorithms for allowing us to control every aspect of the response to make it perfectly accurate to the Axiom Listening Window. It is pretty cool; we have one running in our listening room now. Over the next few weeks we will be coming up with things like what to call it and how to best explain succinctly how it works.

Can you use just an AVR, or does it have to be a seperate pre-amp / amp combination? How many channels?

CatBrat,

If your AVR has pre-outs and main-ins you can use this device no problem. It will be available in either 2-channel, if you have a stereo set-up, or 3-channel if you are running a home theatre.

Interesting. Looking forward to learning more about this device. I'll wait to ask any questions until then.

Wow....

I was expecting to see a lot of suggestions from the axiom owners but did not expect new product announcements on this thread.

Thanks Ian for taking the feedback and making useful improvements to your productline. i'm sure a lot of customers planning to buy the in-wall speakers will be thrilled by the options of getting color matched speakers from Axiom.

Studio Monitors will definitely open up a whole new clientage for Axiom. We will look forward to the redesigned amplifiers and the 'mystry device' and hope to enter the next year with some new and exciting products.

Personally, i'm excited with the news of a new center channel. VP180, though a great speaker, is a little big when sitting under the LCD. I hope VP160 will inherit the sound characteristics from its bigger brother and offer it in a smaller package.

There have been quite a few interesting improvements as suggested by the members in this thread. It list a few of them:
1. Hex screws should be a little recessed on the speakers to give a cleaner look.
2. Top and bottom speakers on the QS should be flushied with the speaker body.
3. Towers should come with the option of outtriggers.
4. Real wood finishes at the price of vinyl (my fav).
5. Brushed statinless steel logo on speakers.
6. Improved sleeker looking stands design.
7. Better lower extension for QS.
8. M136/ 631, mirror finishes, W[M^T]W configuration for center, flagship M100, silk covered woofers (for silky smooth sound) etc. to name a few ..........

Personally, I liked the finishes on Aperion Verus and hope I could get similar finishes and styling in Axiom without paying a huge premium just for the finishes.

Hoping to gather some more suggestions from the members. And looking forward to the new product releases from Axiom.

Thanks

Interesting news Ian! could there be a "name that electronic device" contest in the future?

Wow, awesome update Ian!

Does the new electronic doo-hickey only work with V3, or would it work with m80 v2 and vp180 v3?

Judging by what we've seen of the process to do the real wood on the Axioms, I wouldn't count on that one! 20 coats takes a lot of hours...

ThangamaAdrian? Thingamabob is already taken...

I would still like to see a Center channel with WT/MW design.

Ian, it's great to see you take time to give us insight into what's new and coming up.

I can't wait to see what the mystery device is capable of. I've always thought it would be great to see electronics that know exactly what speakers are hooked up to fine-tune the performance. Is this something that could be accomplished with existing AVRs and pre-pros if they all supported some kind of loudspeaker profile software? Of course, then it wouldn't be Axiom-exclusive. Maybe you could license your system, though? I know, these are just wild stabs in the dark. In any case, I'm hoping discussion of this device will pull ClubNeon back into posting a bit.

That's really great about the new QS power brackets. That should make a lot of installations go much smoother.

Glad to hear about the redesign of the amps as well. I can't wait to see how they've turned out.

Ian mentioned the coding is specific to the Axiom listening window. The listening window is set of individual on and off axis frequency response measurements in the horizontal and vertical plane. The set of measurements are then averaged and then plotted as a single frequency response. That is whats called the listening window.

This device looks more like it would be exclusive to certain Axiom speakers and perhaps even specific to the version of that speaker because the listening windows may vary from version to version.

BlueJays1,

That is correct. The device is coded specifically for the model of speaker you have and it is version dependant.

20 coats of what? I have a real wood (well veneer) M2. It doesn't have the high gloss finish.

Sarang,

I have put some comments in below regarding your laundry list:

1. Hex screws should be a little recessed on the speakers to give a cleaner look. – Our current screw has a nice positive drive on it that we like. Then there are all those people who really like the look of our current screw; or is it only me?

2. Top and bottom speakers on the QS should be flush with the speaker body. – This is a manufacturing thing. Our wood cutting shop is fully automated and the robot machines that cut the parts cannot hold this part to make the inset in it. There is not enough material left on this part for the clamping if we inset the driver. We will continue to see if we can figure out how to get the machine to do this. There have been attempts at it in the past but then there is always the next idea to try.

3. Towers should come with the option of outriggers. – This is a good idea for customize yours. We have been talking about it here over the past few days and the plinth idea is gaining a lot of favour over just the legs.

4. Real wood finishes at the price of vinyl (my fav). – This is my favourite also. It would just keep it so simple. The only possible downside is if people felt that increasing the vinyl prices up to be the same as the real wood was ok.

5. Brushed stainless steel logo on speakers. – I usually leave these sorts of things up to the women. I will have to ask Amie, Amie, Debbie, and Noreen what they think.

6. Improved sleeker looking stands design. – We have been working on our stands lately. We have not changed the basic look mind you so we are not really any “sleeker”. It has been more things like assembling them as completely as possible at our factory so they are easier to put together and changing the way the speaker mounts to the top plate so it is more ridged and does not have the visible metal piece at the front.

7. Better lower extension for QS. – This would involve a larger cabinet which can get a bit cumbersome for wall hanging. There is the option of running surround subs though. One EP125 for each pair of surrounds and run it through the high level input. Or one EP800 for each pair of surrounds for the overkill crowd.

8. M136/ 631, mirror finishes, W[M^T]W configuration for center, flagship M100, silk covered woofers (for silky smooth sound) etc. to name a few .......... – the VP160 is W[M^T]W and our high gloss finishes make pretty good mirrors.

Thanks to everyone for all the great suggestions.

Good stuff indeed. But now back to the most important topic, mirror finishes. Ahem. Think real mirror, silverish, reflecting everything around it. You would be the only manufacturer that produced mirror finish speakers. Soon, everyone (well not exactly), would want one of these and this would be the only place to get one..... I think it would be really cool, but then again, I'm usually a majority of one. Great for M3's.

how about "invisible paint"? the sort that makes you speakers disappear.
that would be great for the WAF (or WDF-Wife Dictate Factor).

(by the way, i don't have a wife, so i'm not biased. ;-))

Unless I'm missing something, it still sounds like primarily a software thing. What I was thinking is that you would download a loudspeaker-specific, version-appropriate file for the device to use, kind of like downloading a driver for Windows. I can see an AVR or preamp not having enough spare processing power to be able to do whatever this device does. In any case, I'm probably going to want to be one of the first to try it out, so I'd better start saving.

Wow, Ian! Thank you for all the news. Cheers!

I would like to see a L/R with an 8" or 10" subwoofer. I currently have the M60's EP 600 and VP180. If i was to buy a new speaker, i would want something more significant than the m60 or m80.


something akin to the Wilson design. either the Sasha, or sophia. However i do not want to pay wilson price's. With that being said, i am sure ivan can bring something to market that would be a good value, Ivan if you make a speaker of this design, i WILL buy it... i think others would as well.


i realize that this speaker would possibly not appeal to axioms primary demographic, so i understand if my idea does not come to fruition.


But, if i don't ask, it will have even less of a chance of happening right?

I'll add another request a 3 channel amp

Pleasantly surprised to hear that the VP160 will have a W M/T(or T/M?) W configuration. Pleasantly because over the years I've suggested several possibilities for such a speaker. Surprised because if the same pattern as the M80 to VP180 development was followed(i.e., same drivers, about the same enclosure size)this couldn't be done with the M60. The mid-range and tweeter, if not modified, extend at least 9" and obviously couldn't be placed vertically in a 9.25" enclosure.

Speculation as to what the solution might be would include: taller enclosure; driver frames cut to fit closer to each other; use a smaller mid-range, such as the 4" from the QS4. Any other ideas?

Who the heck is Ivan?

John, I'm betting the tweeter faceplate gets virtually eliminated.

Can't wait to hear the VP160 very excited about that bit of news.

i suppose if i miss type Ian's name my chances of getting my L/R's are significantly smaller eh?

Ah. A VP160 in a silvery pure mirror finish.

Just to keep this fire burning a little while longer, let's see what everyone's number 1 choice would be from the listed improvements. A poll, a poll!

Which of the Suggested Improvements Would You Like To See? single choice
	Hex screws should be a little recessed on the speakers to give a cleaner look.
	Top and bottom speakers on the QS should be flushied with the speaker body.
	Towers should come with the option of outtriggers.
	Real wood finishes at the price of vinyl. (okay, we admit, we can't do it! Don't vote for this one!)
	Brushed statinless steel logo on speakers.
	Improved sleeker-looking stands design.
	Better lower extension for QS.
	The kitchen sink: M136/ 631, mirror finishes, W[M^T]W configuration for center, flagship M100, silk covered woofers (for silky smooth sound) etc. to name a few...
Votes accepted starting: 09/21/11 03:41 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I did not but really wanted to vote for number two just because I loved the word "flushied".

Heh.

Amie, if you didn't want us to vote for it, you shouldn't have put it in the poll.

You knew I'd vote for the real mirror finish, didn't you?

The best I can do is give a mental picture of one. The perfect mirrored speaker would not be for HT use because of the reflections obviously, but for a stereo music setup. The M3 would probably be perfect for this, either on-wall, or bookshelf. It should cover 100% of the visible parts of the speaker case, preferably with rounded corners and edges that are of the same silvery, real mirror finish.

I know this is, more than likely, just wishful thinking, and don't expect to ever see such a thing.

Other than polished aluminum, I don't know how to accomplish such a thing. Anybody have any ideas for materials to use? Please don't say, "Just cover it in tin foil".

Just cover it in aluminum foil?

... and make sure it's free of wrinkles.

Why not go for a transparent mirror effect - like the Predator camoflauge?