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#358667 - 11/14/11 10:39 PM Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF
TriggerHappy Offline

Registered: 11/14/11
Posts: 8
Hi all nubie here. I just stumbled on Axiom a couple of days ago but so far am liking what I am hearing. I am thinking of getting a pair of M22s but I have a couple of challenges that I am hoping for advice on.

First current set-up: ProAc Tablette 50s run with a Rotel 1060 integrated amp, Rotel RCD 971. Also have a SONOS ZP90 (just got it and hoping to go all digital!) I use as a dedicated stereo system (movie watching is done in the basement and I have a dedicated theatre downstairs)

Challenge 1: Wife - zero footprint requirement

Challenge 2: room size is large, joined family room and kitchen/dinnete with open staircase, cathedral ceiling... 3000-4000 cubic feet plus I estimate. The tablettes sound ok when sitting in position but get lost when anywhere else.

Challenge 3: have to deal with a poorly designed fireplace, entertainment area. The fireplace is in the centre of the wall with the entertainment unit area in the corner. Tried posting a pic but don't see how...

I like the Idea of the m22s as high WAF and I could mount them just above the fire place. But I am not sure how impressive they will sound given the size of the room. I could add a sub but the 1060 doesn't have a sub out (so not sure if it is possible).

the M60 M80 would be the best option but would not fly with the wife and truthfully would block out half the TV when viewing at an angle.

The ideal option would be in cabinet but that would involve renovations (the creation of a cabinet, narrowing the entertainment area, moving the TV above the fireplace, etc..

Help advice would be greatly appreciated!

#358668 - 11/14/11 10:58 PM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: TriggerHappy]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4083
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Welcome to the forum,TriggerHappy. I'm about to go to sleep so I only have a moment to assist you with posting pictures on this forum.

First you need to upload the picture(s) to a photo hosting site like Photobucket . Then you grab the link from that site and post it in the message, utilizing the "enter an image" function above the message composition window.

Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

#358669 - 11/14/11 11:50 PM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
dakkon Offline

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
why not use the pre-outs on the 1060 to provide a signal to a subwoofer, just use the lowpass filter in the subs amp.... let the crossover in the amp do its job.

This is essentially what i am doing with my processor.. My balanced inputs for my L/R speakers go to my amps.. For my L/R subs, i am using the RCA output to provide a signal to the subs. i am not using the cross over in the processor at all.

Also keep in mind, you can get a "real wood" finish, this way you can get a finish that your wife may find more acceptable.

I am no expert, but the M22's seem kind of small for that size of a room.. Maybe Brent or JC will give their input, also do not hesitate to call axiom, both Brent and JC are great guys and the company philosophy is to not over sell. They strive to get you the "correct" product, many people have shared their experience about being talked down in size.

Good luck with your decision.

#358672 - 11/15/11 01:24 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: TriggerHappy]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10456
Trig, welcome. You haven't really stated specifically what you're hoping to accomplish with a change of speakers. The implication seems to be that an ability to play louder is wanted. The loudness level experienced depends primarily on the listening distance, not the room size(a room doesn't get "filled" with sound at equal levels), and it isn't possible to move a considerable distance away from the usual listening position without the level dropping significantly.

Since the M22s have two mid-woofers slightly larger than the one in the T50 and a larger tweeter, they would have the capacity for a greater dynamic range(the larger enclosure isn't relevant beyond the deep bass)at any given distance. This is about all that can be really said.

A sub would be highly desirable for greater bass extension and to take some load off the main speakers, but your 1060 has no crossover provisions and subs don't either, having just a low-pass filter for a roll-off above the set frequency. The mains would still have to run full range. As far as simply providing a signal feed to the sub from your 1060, that can be done either by using the full-range pre-outs(if the sub has two line level inputs)or by using the B speaker terminals to connect with speaker wire to the sub's speaker level inputs(if present).

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#358675 - 11/15/11 07:54 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: JohnK]
Murph Offline

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6894
Loc: PEI, Canada
Hey Trigger, Welcome.

The On-Wall M22s may provide another option for you, as opposed to the in-cabinet models. I have never heard them or your current speakers so I can not say how they would compare in sound quality or how well off-axis they perform.

I know CatBrat has two pairs of these on a wall and pictures are posted in a couple of places, which I can't seem to find. Admittedly, I did not look very hard.

While Johnk is correct about volume levels, distance, and angles... Smaller speakers might not play as cleanly at the higher volume levels required to get the desired levels at distant points. A more powerful speaker (and equally capable amp combined) that is capable of playing cleaner (less distortion) at louder levels will do a better job in a large room if you are trying to get a louder volume level at the distant points.

Also, as John alluded to, some speakers will perform better off-axis than others but you will never be able to replicate the wonderful stereophonic experience of sitting in the middle of two stereo speakers, once you move to the outside.

I'm not sure if either of the above is what you are describing as your problem but I hope it helps.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

#358678 - 11/15/11 08:07 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: Murph]
CatBrat Offline

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6005
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Click on my signature link for the pictures. Granted, my setup probably does not have the WAF. But it's just me and the cat. You did mention that your equipment sits in a corner arrangement, so the on-wall method probably wouldn't work there. If you went the M22 route, you might be able to mount them on the wall using brackets supplied by Axiom to turn and angle the speakers forward. I use one of these brackets on the M2 that is mounted above my tv. Personally, I think the bookshelf M22's sound a bit better than the on-wall version anyway.

#358685 - 11/15/11 09:13 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: TriggerHappy]
cb919 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Welcome Triggerhappy,
I don't have much to add except to say that M22's on swiveling wall brackets and a good sub sounds like your most viable option (without knowing specific details). I am also a long time Sonos user and love my Axioms as well. You'll find this ragtag group of forum members will be most helpful in suggesting solutions for your questions.

In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

#358688 - 11/15/11 10:01 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: cb919]
Murph Offline

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6894
Loc: PEI, Canada
Thanks Cat, I didn't see the "corner placement".
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

#358689 - 11/15/11 10:02 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: cb919]
TriggerHappy Offline

Registered: 11/14/11
Posts: 8
hi all thanks for the responses.. they say a picture is worth a thousand words so here it goes...

Just to clarify the speakers would be just above and to either side of the fire place, so there would not be a corner but there also wouldn't be a wall to the right of the right speaker. not sure what sonic implications that would have but no worse than my current set-up...

#358692 - 11/15/11 10:10 AM Re: Advice on speakers and set-up w/ high WAF [Re: TriggerHappy]
TriggerHappy Offline

Registered: 11/14/11
Posts: 8
well the picture didn't work...any ideas? I Used photobucket and copied the link...

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