Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater A couple pics: VP160 with stand

Real wood, cherry, bordeaux stain, semi-gloss finish.

I have not had time to calibrate it. I simply moved the M22's out of the way and plugged it in. I checked speaker SPL level, and it was right where the M22's were, so I did not change it. It seams to play with the VP150 OK, but time will tell. Too soon to speak much to the speaker's performance. We watched a movie last night, and I feel as if dialog is improved, but again, too soon to say much.

The stand is surprisingly stable. It's all aluminum construction. Nicely coated and easy enough to put together a caveman can do it (obviously, as I was successful).

that is one awesome looking setup..

Looks good Mike.

WOW !!!

Looks great Mike, awesome setup!


What size screen do you have?

Yeah, I'm jealous.

Very nice Michael!

That's a really nice finish.

Thanks!! I'm quite happy with the set up. But I think I need a few more speakers.....lol

The M22's will more than likely get moved forward a bit and used as wide speakers. I'm afraid the M80's have to go and be replaced with M60's. As you can see, the M80's do obstruct some of the screen when in 2.35 mode. Also, I can move them closer to the screen wall, whereas the M80's tend to like where they are and do not sound quite right if moved back to the screen wall.

After Charles was asking about wood finishes when using a OH projector, I figured it might be helpful to post the pics. The darker stain and semi-gloss seams like a good compromise. I would have preferred rosewood in a piano finish and think they are beautiful, but the premium cost would be somewhat wasteful seeing how dark the room is, and the finish would be too reflective. I do get minor reflection, but it's not noticeable.

I'm looking forward to playing around a bit with the VP160 and getting it dialed in. I may end up pulling the upper 150 out of the room, as the 160 seams to be quite adequate on its own.

Michael, since getting my VP-180 i have no desire to get a second center... i know the 180 is larger than the 160, but i dont think they are too far off... and both are MUCH bigger than the 150's.. Your room looks wonderful.

Beautiful room Michael!

Once you get it dialed in and listen more, please let us know if it was a big difference or not...

I'm looking to upgrade from the VP150 to the VP160 myself, just waiting on a few more user reviews...

Dana

That's beautiful! Is that a pair of 160s above and below the screen?
I have the M60s with my brand new VP160. While I've never heard the M80s, I can tell you that these speakers play VERY well together. I can't imagine the M80s adding anything to my set up, since it now seems like nothing is missing. For your size room, if size matters (and we guys know it does despite what the women say), I think you'll be more than satisfied with the M60s. And by the way, you now need to update your sig...

Dduval, pull the trigger ASAP. The upgrade difference is astounding!

Man, I knew I would hear more of this...

Did you upgrade from the VP150?

Dana

That is one awesome looking set up Mike!

Gorgeous. Nice choice on the cherry.

Very nice look, compliments the room nicely.

Awesome!

how do the M22's fit in, using for separate listening or mixed in via some audyssey feature?

Looks, and I'm sure sounds, great, Mike.

I upgraded from a VP100, a pair of VP100s, and a pair of M22s. I tried all of these as center channels, but there is just no comparison to the VP160. It really is a match made in heaven.

Thanks for the compliments. You are all too kind.



No, I have a VP150 above the screen. Ya, I’ll do something about the sig. I just installed a new projector the other day as well, Sony VPL-95.



I have been using the M22’s as a center channel for several years. About a year ago, I added the VP150 above the screen. Right now, the M22’s are just there, as I don’t have anywhere else to put them. I may end up using them as width channel speakers, but I need to buy a new AVR for that and there’s a few other things that have my financial attention at the moment.


So we spent a couple hours watching regular TV last night. I have ALWAYS felt TV sound was, for lack of a better description, somewhat hollow. I did not get that impression last night. I need a day off so I can play with this thing……

Michael that's the way I've always described the 180. I was telling Rick (wid) prior to his 160 that after a while of having the 160, and if it is anything remotely close to the 180 that he'll not notice the center because it blends so well with the mains and that after a while it will almost do a disappearing act with the 80s for a 'complete' front soundstage. It definitely defines the term 'seamless' to a 'T'.

I've had my system down for over a month due to some home renovations and whenever I put it back together and listened to it the other day I really was once again blown away with the entire Axiom speaker system sound ... I feel very lucky and fortunate to have stumbled into this entire experience with them.

This is a setup that almost asks to have the main speakers dangle from the ceiling.
We had an old setup where the left speaker was partially blocked by a furniture piece just like this and when the furniture was removed, it made an audible difference.

Great room though.
Did we see pics of this before?
I vaguely recall.

Remember this guy's system from several years back...



He also had an infinite baffle sub built into the wall to the right, the thread regarding his setup...

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/144474/1

I'm still stuck in this situation. I know it affects the sound, but there is nothing I can do about it. Say, maybe a VP160 is the ticket.

I intend to make some furniture changes. I'm going to pick up some reclining units, so the mains should not be blocked, or so I hope. It's tough, as the room is only 12' wide. I need to build another house....

Very cool, Mike. Why didn't you get a vp180 if you were just going to put it on a stand under the screen?

Oh, yeah, I meant to say thanks for the pics. I'll have to order samples sometime soon. My tax refund won't be gigantic, but it will certainly help me to buy something, anyway. I'm still not sure on VP180 or VP160 at this point if I'm going to try a horizontal center again, so I may just take the opportunity to upgrade my M80s to v3 in preparation for the mystery device they've been talking about. I still want to try a bigger speaker as a center, but it's not like I feel the M22 is lacking. It'll happen one of these days.

The VP180 is too wide, and sticks too far out from the rear wall, or I would have gone with one..... And then there is the distinct possibility of adding a VP160 over the screen (if the 150 doesn't cut it), and there's no way I can do that with 180.

I am really trying to optimize space in this room. That is also why I swapped out the EP600 for two EP500's.

Awesome looking setup Michael!

I’m not sure how regular recliners will affect the sound if blocking the line of sight but for the first time the other day I pulled out my old futon to put in front of my regular seats so I could fit 6 people and that thing made the dialogue for the second row unintelligible with only one center on the ground, so I had to switch to folding chairs. Now that thing is a sonic black hole.

I have however realized that if I want to ever set up two rows I will have to mount a second center above my screen and if I do that I’m so going to hand my mains from the ceiling like in the picture Rick posted. I might also try my extra M22s up there on their sides. Though I had some pretty bad interference patters in my apartment when I tried that I was also only 6-8 rather than 12-15 feet away and no real options as to how far apart to put them.

That other guy went through a lot of effort to ruin it with a bare marble floor.

I did think about hanging the mains, but they would be right in the the projector path for 2.35 viewing. I think I'm just going to grab a set of those recliners that Costso has. I should have bought them last time I was there, but I have been trying to limit my spontaneous Costco buying habit for a while.... go in for TP, come out with a patio set kind of buying in that damn place.

My next home will have a much different HT. I've learned a lot with this one, mostly what not to do. I can say that the next one, no matter what else I change from now till then, will be AT LEAST 16' wide and AT LEAST 24' in depth. This will enable two rows and four seats across.

Dean - specific question for you. If I do end up removing the upper VP150 center, I'll then have some room for height speakers. I MIGHT be able squeeze QS-8's above the screen, but they will be really tight. Seeing how you have played with height speakers a bit, what would you go with - in my room that is.

Geez, that's a good idea.

Michael based on the width of your room 12’, and what looks like a standard ceiling height I don’t think the cost of QS8s would be justified especially if you are planning to put them in what looks like a recessed area above your screen. I think you would get more utility value out of a pair of M2s as height speakers or even mounting your spare M22s on their sides in that room (the driver orientation won’t matter with only ambient sound coming from the heights unless the two speakers are so close that you get interference).

What I found trying out different height speakers QS8, M22 and M2 was that having room for the sound to disperse out before being reflected toward me is what made the difference in the QS8s sounding better in the height role. I discovered this while trying different placements and realized that mounting the QS8s on the front wall required them to be almost equidistant from the ceiling and side walls. Here the QS8s didn’t sound much different than the M22s or M2s. However as I moved them out toward the seating along the side walls it brought them closer to the peak in the vaulted ceiling and farther from the front wall with the distance to both now being very unequal. This made a big difference in how the dispersed sound from the QS8s spread around the room compared to the direct nature of the M22s and M2s.

The only reason I would go with QS8 height speakers in your present room would be to future proof toward moving to the larger 16 x 24 room you would like. Even then IMO a vaulted or at least high ceiling is a huge bonus with or without height speakers.

I also feel that a second center above the screen is more beneficial in most cases than height speakers, more so if you have multiple rows of seating that block a lower center from directly hitting the second or further rows.

Thanks Dean. Out of curiosity, what about the smaller QS4?

Due to the ambient nature of the sounds coming from the height speakers I think QS4s would do just as well as QS8s in the height role. However, if mounted in that recess or on the front wall I think that even more so than in my room the sound dispersion would still be quite similar to a direct radiating speaker because most of the reflecting surfaces are so close to the speakers.

I hadn’t thought of it before but if you could mount QS speakers on your ceiling you could bring them out from the front and even side walls enough to get some really good dispersion of the sound which would probably make the upgrade to them from direct radiating speakers more worthwhile.

Just a note for those reading this. The QS speakers actually have great dispersion as surround and rear speakers even when placed close to the ceiling and other walls I think in part because they are also reflecting off the floor which tends to be far enough away to produce some good ambiance and reduce directionality. However, when placed up front their reflections from the floor are competing with the mains and center tending to get drowned out, which is why I think they benefit from having more distance from the ceiling and other walls to enhance their ambiance in the height role.

Dean, I just wanted to say I appreciate the value you bring to these discussions about heights and wides, among other topics. Thanks!

Thanks for the input Dean. I have some pondering to do....

Thanks Charles! I know I haven’t been posting as much for a while. Many of the issues I used to espouse on are now being said by others and I have no interest in most “general” discussions. Combine that with the greater amount of time I’m spending on exercise forums and something has to give. However, I do try to chime in when I feel I have something above average to contribute to the discussion. I’m also sure I’ll start commenting more again soon when I start then next round of inevitable upgrades like a second center above the screen (now determined to be a must have), still want the mid-bass modules, probably some separate amps when I add a second center (pushing the Onkyo to its limit already), but need some dedicated 20 amp circuits run before that . . . never ends does it. Other upgrades came to a halt since I’m still reveling in the upgrade to the AE7000. The PQ is so much better than the AE4000 I’m totally blown away and loving it. Now that I’m talking about it I should get off my butt and make this happen before the first week of march so I have it all for ME3.

Hi Dean,
Does the AE7000 have a discrete power on/off command? As you know I've never found the optimal solution for the AE4000, just a decent work around. Also good to hear about the 7000 being way better in PQ - I was never completely happy with the 4000.

Dan I haven’t bothered to look for one, since I’ve been too lazy to program everything into my universal remote. I can say that they both respond to the same IR commands so I have to put a piece of electricians tape over the IR receiver on the one I’m not using.

As to PQ there really is no comparison. I never realized the PQ on the AE4000 wasn’t so great since I had nothing to compare it too and the hugeness of it lent a quality of its own. However, this is quite literally night and day difference even without any calibration. The image is noticeably sharper and the added brightness makes everything look more vivid and 3D even in 2D mode. It’s actually so bright that when I moved the AE7000 up to within 15’ rather than 19’ from the screen even in eco mode it was too bright and gave me eye strain after a few hours of gaming because of how dark my room is, so I had to move it back to the back wall.

Thanks for the updates and extra info on the AE7000. I should qualify my dissatisfaction with the 4000. I get frustrated when I try to calibrate because I simply can't get really good contrast and grey scale and darks from it when using a calibration disc. However we watched Transformers3 over Xmas and subjectively, the PQ actually looked really good including black levels, but it was late and perfect lighting conditions. However I know from your posts you have very good light control and you're still saying the 7000 is way better, so good to know.

Cheers,

Very pretty!

My room is nowhere near as nice, because it's an almost 40 year old building that was mediocrely maintained and not worth my time to beautify the walls / floors. Also I'm renting.

But I've stuffed M60's, VP150, QS8's, a Runco projector, and a 84" screen into my living room.

I was a considerate neighbour and left my SVS PB12-Plus/2 in the parents basement.


- D

I finally had some time to play with the 160 a bit.

First thing I found out is the VP150 plays louder than the VP160 with nothing more than channel test tones being sent to them. To the sum of 4 db as per my RS digital SPL meter. I found this a bit surprising. And to clarify, as I'm sure it'll be asked if not...I have each center channel speaker being driven by two separate, but identical 200 wpc/8 ohm amps.

Second thing is that the VP160 has a distinctly different tone to it than the VP150v2, as well as my M80ti's. The VP150 and m80ti's match quite well, but I'm not particularly excited over the m80ti and 160v3 paring. For movies it doesn't matter much at all, but for music, I don't think they play together all that nicely. The 160 is just a bit more relaxed, smoother, hell - better.

My M80ti's are definitely on their way out. The VP150 is also on it's way out. That sucks, as I really do like the over/under screen set up, but I don't feel as if I "need" both. The VP160 seams to hold its own quite nicely. I need to call Brent and get some more speakers coming.

How old are your M80s? I'd totally be trying M80v3s.

About 8 years old I reckon.... I bought them about the same time I registered on this sight. Yep, they be going down the road... maybe garage speakers, I dunno. I'm going with M60v3's for this room. I've always wanted to try them anyway.

I am not surprised by your findings. I had thought the VP160 wouldn't pair all that well with the original M80Ti's based on what Allan has mentioned here and there about them and a little speculation from myself about how the M80Ti's might sound based on my M22Ti's. I am betting you will like the M60's, probably even more than the M80's.

I have an older pair of M80ti with the 160 and find they sound good together, must not have the golden ear. Mostly I listen to concert DVDs and music and like what I hear.


Mike, your M80s should have the V2 components if I'm not mistaken.

I just remembered Mike has added a resistor to the tweeters on his M80s so this could be where the difference lies.

I have the older, Ti versions. I did at one time have resistors installed, but removed them after I got an AVR with Audysey.

I never considered myself to have a golden ear Rick but the tonal difference is very distinct to me. I have a couple different calibration BR's. One has a sweep that sorta moves around the room in a fluid motion. If everything is set correctly, the sweep is seamless. It is not seamless in the front. But if you like the pairing, then don't mess with it!

The V2 was implemented in mid 03 Mike. I'm sure if you were to check your M80s would have the V2 guts in them although they say ti.

Michael,

Looking at the picture of your setup on the first page of this thread, it seems that you can almost fit a floorstanding speaker in the center channel position. If you did go with the m60's for the front speakers, that would save you 2 inches in height. And if you nudge your screen up slightly you may be able to get a m60, as a center channel. I know that you already purchased the VP160, but three identical speakers up front would be about as seamless as it can get.

That's why I originally had M22's for a center. The screen is as high as I can mount it, and the M60 is too tall by about 2".

Rick I already spoke to Ian about my M80's. They do not have the V2 components. I had given thought to upgrading them to V3, but after buying everything to do this (which is everything but the box), I was darn near at the new M60 price.

I am loving the VP160 BTW.....

That's excellent to hear.

Hey Dean -

To belabor my wishes to install height speakers, a new thought came to mind....

I think I can mount a set of spare QS8's I have on my corner base traps. I can mount them pretty much anywhere on them, height wise. I'm thinking this might just work, seeing how I can mount them low enough to keep the upper driver any distance I want from the soffit. By doing this, I'd have to drill some holes for wires, so I'd rather not do that if you think it a dumb idea.

I have the 4311 in route and wanted to pull some wires and get ready for it's much anticipated arrival.

What do you think??

You should totally do it.

Oh, only taking advice from Dean?

I see how it is.

I always listen to your advise Thomas.... That Dry Fly juice was wonderful. So there!

I'm gunna do it. Will get the wire pulled today.

I think this room just makes me feel cozy and comfortable every time i see it. The colour scheme is similar to what we've done in my home office and with the furniture options (the Bordeaux leather and darkwood tables). Some soft bookshelves on the walls and rich carpet makes for a softly reflective sound; great for music or movies w/o being harsh on the ears at higher SPL.

Ditch the VP150. Why muck up the response using 2 dissimilar center channel speakers? The VP160 is a much better product IMO. The left M60 is blocked by your couch

I like your screen!

I love the room as well.
I don't see any good options for moving the M60 blocked by the couch unless it gets raised up to screen level but that would take away from the great job of creating a cozy., comfortable room, as Chess described. The tweeter isn't blocked and it's the most important of the drivers to have line of site, so I'd be OK as is.

I've removed one of the couches, so there no longer remains a couch blocking the left driver. I'm currently looking at new HT seats. I gotta say though, I can tell a marked improvement of the sound stage with the left speaker no longer obstructed. I should have done that years ago.....

But the question I am asking now is regarding the height channel speaker placement.

And - I don't know why so many people knock the VP150. I find it to be very good center channel. I prefer the VP160, but the VP150 is no slouch. I am more than likely going to by a widget that I can adjust gain to my amps so that I can still use both centers. I'm working with a vendor that JohnK suggested now. http://luminousaudio.com/axiom/rca.html

I'll update on all this as I get things switched around. Fighting with wire pulls right now. Had to take a break before I get pissed and start throwing things...

Oh, and thanks for the compliments.