Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler HTIB upgrades

I've got a few friends with the HTIB curse. When/if they ask me about upgrades, I usually point them at an inexpensive (<$300) receiver and the Epic Midi as a good starting point. They have invariably balked at the price. Anyone else had this experience? How would you approach people who are used to surround sound for less than $500 about spending $1500 for decent surround sound? If they wouldn't spend it, what would you recommend instead?

There aren't a lot of choices out there for "Ultra Cheap" HT. I've not personally heard it, but this has gotten some pretty good feedback.

Ventriloquist VT-12

If you add an STF-1 subwoofer with it they knock the price down another $100, so you can get all your speakers and subwoofer for $498. Add an inexpensive receiver and you've got the whole deal for about $800. Outside of those complete crap HTIB setups, that's about as cheap as you can do it.

Yeah, that's what I recommended today. I know Peter was impressed with it way back before he got his Axioms...

I've only experienced this ALL THE TIME. It's all about the bottom line: they free up $500, and you want then to spend $1500? Ain't gonna happen, especially when they're all spending lots of money in other areas that they KNOW are worth the extra bucks.

Look it it this way. HTIB is their first step on the righteous path. Do not deny them that first step.

Well my wife wanted a home theater set up, but I have always preferred 2 channel and most of the room by the tv was taken up by my stereo.So we ended up getting the HSU VT-12 set up.It does sound pretty good for what it is.We already had a sub(Warfedale power cube)so all we needed to get then was a reciever.Seeing we were trying to do this on the cheap we ended up getting a refurbed Panasonic from JR Music.That reciever was only $106US plus shipping.So for about $550 we got the whole thing and I dont think theres anything out there for less that could come even close for watching movies.Of course they dont compare to my 2 channel set up but then again the set up cost only one tenth of what the stereo was.

Regarding the original question, how do you get people to swear off HTIB, use the economics: the fact is, if people have any taste for good sound, these HTIBoxes end up being money poured down the toilet, since NONE of the pieces end up having long-term value. Better by far to cut corners selectively -- get a cheap-cheap HT receiver, for example, like the lowest-powered H/K's or a used 5.1 w/out DPLII -- but always put at least some (preferably most or all) of your money toward items that you'll want for 5-10 years or longer, like M2is.

I live in a neighborhood in economic transition (young professional families like ours upgrading a lower-middle class enclave). Since we bought our house 7 years ago, we've done many upgrades, and we're always struck by the stupidity of the way the previous owner did repairs, always purchasing "the cheapest kind"—a ceiling fan that breaks, low-cost exterior paint that peels, carpet that wears and stains too quickly. Buy the cheapest and you end up paying more -- that's the American way, the "ignorance tax" we foist on the lower-classes, like the "Check Cashing" stations that linger on the peripheries of our barrios and ghettos, ready to take a nice 3% cut for transactions that should cost nothing or close to nothing.

HTIB is the "Check Cashing" phenomenon of audio ... the way "the man" takes a bite out of the ignorant consumer.

If this argument doesn't sway them, then let them eat HTIB!!!!!

Birdman

I think this is the real problem: these people have already experienced surround sound. I'm in the same financial boat as most of my friends (if not worse), but I can stand to upgrade slowly, piece by piece. Surround/center speakers will be my last purchase in this path. However, since these guys jumped the gun, they don't want to go "backwards" and they're stuck buying the whole thing at one time.

My (former) landlord always purchased the cheapest stuff. My current landlord (same property) doesn't purchase anything. Grr.... BTW, there's a number of those check cashing places near my apartment.

In reply to AustinBirdMan - I agree with most of what you say. My father always taught me to buy quality first. If you can't afford quality, then you wait to buy. Otherwise, you'll end up spending more in the end. Simple yet sage advice.

Now, here is where I disagree with you, and agree with Twirly - You can't deny people the important first step towards home theater - 5.1, even if it ends up costing them more in the end.

Take me, for example - I bought a HTIB before they were called HTIB. It was a shelf system with two fronts with integrated, separately wired subs, two satelite surrounds and a center. It came with 5.1 inputs for DVD, and ProLogic for TV and VHS. The amp was around 400 watts (Whatever that means on a system like this...) and cost me around US$400. This was in 2000. So, for $400, I got everything that I wanted and was a very happy man. Yes, the components were crap, but THEY MADE ME HAPPY. And guess what - four years later, all I want to do is upgrade to a REAL HOME THEATER. Nobody could have convinced me four years ago that I shouldn't buy a car - that I should buy a Home THeater instead (although I've gotten more use out of my HTIB than my car - and the HTIB is still around and my car is basically up on blocks now). That would have been crazy.

Now to my point. Testing out a friend's home theater is great - but it feels more like a gimmick when you hear it without having your own system to compare it to (even if it is a crap system). Without really sitting down and living with a crappy HTIB, and then listening to a good HT, you won't believe that it is worth it, or you won't know what you're missing, and you won't desire it.

So - how to convince somebody to get a real HT instead of an HTIB - Let them make their own mistakes, and in the end, they will be convincing you why they should upgrade their system (and maybe you should too, while he's at it...)

Most people enjoy good sound when they hear it, but in the absence of a direct A/B comparison, they won't be able to see how much worse their HTIB systems really are. Ignorance is bliss.

While it's always nice to convert someone from plastic speakers and cheap receivers to quality components and Axioms -- if only for the commission -- some people could really care less about quality sound reproduction.

You're definitely right, Pickard, people have to learn from their own experiences. Some never do (my father just purchased his SECOND Bose system, infatuated by the same sales dude who mercilessly ripped him off on the last one), but they probably wouldn't appreciate the difference anyway. $400 for a HTIB sounds like a pretty good way (esp in contrast to the thousands my father spents on the Booze systems) to get into the whole HT/5.1 way of life.

Birdman