Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Music In Surround

If you were impressed by such a presentation then the recordings from AIX 5.1 or 7.1 Stage mix will really thrill you.

AIX RECORDS

I voted that “Blu-Ray Audio won’t help” for the reasons Andrew gave. The only possible exception I can see are concert Blu-rays but even then just because they have more channels doesn’t mean they will be mastered well.

Even the first “audiophile” BD I got, which came with my Oppo had nothing but reverb mixed into the center channel. Sound engineers know that most people don’t have surround sound systems and of those who do most don’t have “audiophile” surround systems rather something like a HTIB.

I’ve found that the real issue for me is not simply bit rate or number of channels. I tested mp3s I ripped myself from well mastered CDs using different algorithms and up in the 192-320 bit range I had to listen for specific mp3 anomalies to tell the difference between them and the original on my Axioms. Even on my Sennheiser HD 600 headphones I couldn’t reliably tell the difference at 320 bits.

I found something similar between CDs and SACDs in that a SACD didn’t sound any different to me than a well mastered CD version if available. In fact except were reviews said the SACD was an improvement I switched back to only buying well mastered CDs using reviews and a local audiophile store for info.

Also in line with what John said about algorithms to extract the surround channels, I have several DVD-A concerts with both multi-channel and two-channel and it’s hard to tell the difference between the mult-channel and the extracted two-channel.

So as Andrew said for the mass market there just isn’t a reason for quality BD audio and we (peeps like us) are not a big market.

On a side note I had an uncle from Illinois, who’s played in bands all his life, out visiting and demoed a lot of music I listen to for him. He was pleasantly surprised by how well mixed all the bands I from Asia I played for him were. I hadn’t thought about it but besides just getting bored with U.S. bands I think the recordings, at least for pop and rock bands, are better mastered than the crap here which may also be why I’ve gravitated toward them since getting a good sound system.

I have several DVD Audio and SACD discs and overall love the sound when mixed properly. I have even read reviews over the years where the staunch vinyl crowd "reluctantly" admitted that they were that good and, in performance, at least equal to their precious vinyl recordings. The problem, like any niche product(remember laserdisc?), is that, even with all its great potential, if the companies are not going to support it and bring the price down to where the masses are going to be interested in buying it, it is never going to catch on. We certainly have had several examples of that over the years, especially in the recording aspect of audio.

The even larger problem lies with the engineers and record producers of the various artists and labels who, even though the capability has been there for decades to do so, most have been reluctant to go back in to the studio to remix recordings for an alternate "multi-channel" sound vehicle for some unknown fear of tampering with what they describe as their "original concept".

The ironic thing about this is that if one is old enough, I, myself personally, can remember back in the late fifties, hearing many of the same excuses from recording engineers and producers who weren't keen on remixing their mono recordings in to the newly invented breakthrough format, "Stereo"!

Thanks for the link to AIX -- I wasn't familiar with you folks!

Um, JC works with Axiom, not AIX. He's just a big AIX fan, and rightfully so.

And thanks Mark!

Thoughtful comments from all.

I agree that with many disks it can be difficult to notice a meaningful difference between surround and stereo. I think this is especially true with classical music, where the surround channels are primarily used for ambience. You can, indeed, get much the same effect with PLII or Neo:6.

But look at an album like the Doobie Brothers' "The Captain and Me". I always thought this was one of the best mixed and recorded albums of the early 70s. The stereo mix is quite spectacular, but the surround mix leaves me gasping. The sound stage is no longer in front of you -- instead you're in the middle of it. A track like "South City Midnight Lady" is demonstrative. Acoustic guitars, horns, vocal harmonies, gentle percussion arrange tastefully all around you. And, if your heart is set on stereo, you can listen to the other side, recorded at 192 bit resolution. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it.

At any rate, I'm glad I have my Axioms now to get a really balanced and nuanced presentation.

Just to keep the conversation lively, here are two pieces for which I'd gladly pay a premium to obtain a good multi-channel recording:

The first is Respighi's "The Pines of Rome." The first time I heard this piece performed, the orchestra included 5 or 6 small brass choirs spread around the various corners of the theater. Talk about surround sound! The effect was, um, really effective! Capturing that kind of a performance in full surround would be a great way to show off the capabilities of multi-channel audio.

The second is one of Zappa's final concerts where a live ensemble performed "The Yellow Shark." It was presented in 6-channel surround, with speakers at the front L&R, center L&R and rear L&R of the audience. In addition to the main mix, Zappa used little costumed guys with fishing poles to lower hula hoops over the heads of soloists. The hula hoops had 6 mics positioned around the hoop which sent the solo out to the various corners of the PA system. I've always wanted to hear that one in surround...

I'll keep supporting good audio, but even I don't go crazy with it, since there are still too few bands that I enjoy who have multi-channel releases.

Concert Blu-rays are awesome, but to provide more value to the consumer, they really need to do album+live concert combos. I really think they could increase sales if they could offer this at under $20 street price. I'll also say that I'm not tempted to buy any more classical CDs at this point. When I want some more classical, I'm going to get concert Blu-rays. Actually seeing the musicians perform in a nice hall is a pretty cool part of the experience.

Also, I don't know how we're going to get high school and college kids to move to high-bitrate, multi-channel music recordings when decent gear costs more than they have to spend. Or maybe they really are spoiled enough to be able to afford it. I'm out of touch.

Yeah, but that's always been the case hasn't it? I mean, in college one of us would buy an album and the rest would make cassette copies. These never lasted very long, but everything I ever enjoyed on cassette I later purchased on CD. Isn't that roughly equivalent to the whole mp3 thing?

And there are always companies like Axiom making quality gear at prices that folks can afford if they're interested.