Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Reading the M60 vs. M80 Graphs

Hi axiom man,

I think you might have misunderstood me; I would not have suggested your adding subwoofers to the QS8 surround channels. It would be pointless, as your LFE main subwoofer channel will handle all the deepest bass.

As to the Paradigm Studio 60s, they certainly aren't "better". They will likely have a slightly different tonal signature and the usual Paradigm bass hump, which will make them sound "warmer" at first, then that "warm" hump will get annoying with long-term listening. The Axiom M60s and M80s are more neutral through that bass region and are free of that "warm" coloration.

Regards,
Alan

thanks for chipping in Alan ...
and I will find that post, and yeh I may have read it wrong. It was about some one thinking the bottom end of the QS8 would be nice if they went a little lower. I think they drop off at 100 hz, but can't look right now. He also mentioned something else. I thought it was you who said you could always set up a little sub under each to give it a tad more bottom end.
Problem is if there is a boom in the rear it would be nice to hear boom in the rear not Bo from the rear and oommm from the from subs. Yeh, I know uni directional, but the 100 - 60 hz still can be heard coming from the front. This way the 8" sub will take the 100 - 30 hz out of the right rear and right back rears and play it, because it will be line fed threw the left channel rear/back speaker wire. and filtered to the qs8's.

yes, I listened to the Paradigm's again last night and sometimes it felt the bass was a little open.

now just need to decide for stereo, music almost 90% what I want M60 or M80's
really looking at he graphs the M80's other than going a tad more bottom end and playing louder the M60's should be ok specially if I put a sub in the mix.
not sure yet what I want in the theatre room, still like the bookshelf and sub combo. Just really not sure why I need towers when running two subs.

now if I can get High Gloss Cherry Vinyl I'd be soo happy.

Troy, it's unclear what "filtered to the QS8s" refers to, since there would be none on the QS8s.

My Q's are crossed over at 90hz, and I get plenty of impact from them, and the bass sent to the 3 subs fill the room.

ah ha
ok, I will try to explain. I was just looking at the back of the Axiom subs. Ok, there used to be High Level inputs and outputs. Now they just have high level in. Don't understand that, if your running speaker wires to the HL in then it terminates.
anyways, there are on some sub or older ones a High pass filter.
before the LFE jack. You would run your front speaker wires to the R/L line level input of the sub. It would filter the cutoff frequencies ..( 80hz and below ) and then on the output side you would continue the speaker wire run to the speaker and the sub would pass the 80hz and up to the speaker.

with my last Denon I can set the individual speakers to large/small. Also, set the filter cutoff to each seperately. So what I am thinking is setting the LFE to the front three to LFE + Mains, and set the surrounds to large, with no cut off in the frequency. There fore I will use my sub and 8" under each raer channel run te speaker wire to the sub, using the high pass filter on the sub, ste the cut off to 90hz, then pass it to the speaker. So, the sub will take 90hz and down and pass the remainder to the speaker 90hz and up. So, when I have say some bottom end coming to the left rear, the bottom end will appear to come from the rear left. This way my front subs will be doing nothing. There's not a lot of volume low end to the rear channels anyways, but it will allow the rear to have full control from 30hz and up individually.
My feeling is that if say a door slams or something low frequency happens to the left side that the bottom end shouldn't fill the room or appear to come from the front. I know low frequencies are not directional, but if the front sub is pushing out a 80 signal I am going to hear it from the front and it will appear that even though the door closes from the back side I get the higher frequencies from the rear, but the bottom boom part seems to fill the room. SO, this way if that door closes and then the front subs won't play any sound, but the rear left will and it will get the full frequency range and the sub will play the 80hz down and the low end will fill the room from that side. It will not b at a high volume, so will most likely dissperse before it gets a chance to fill the room.
Kinda like throwing a rubber baseball, if I throw it from the front subs hard it is going to bounce around loud. Or maybe a softer throw, and if I threw the ball from the left rear, it is not so pwerful so the ball may go as far as hitting me in the head from my back. If there's a big explosion, well then the front subs are going to over power the rears anyways and you want that room to fill and rumble.

Sir ..
you have three subs ??? would two be up front complimenting the front three and one be in the rear of the room ?

kind of the same situation I am after, except I am breaking it down a bit more .

Maybe I will go with four subs. Two up front and two in each rear where the left surround rear and left back rear would share a EP175.
Well, ok I cannot as Axiom subs don't have the filter anymore.

Doesn't really matter I just have to figure out what I want now M60's or M80's ....
for 2ch music or 2.1 room is open concept about 34 x 24 if include the kitchen and dining.

Movie room I am just up in arm as I don't know what I like.
I love the book shelves, but then I am not sure they are going to fill a 15 x 21 x 8 ft room sufficiently.
I have the M&K 750, but am going to either go with the M&K 950's or Axiom Mxx.
For upstairs the Mxx are either Vinyl or veneer and in the movie room they will be black.
I don't want to waste money now, but need something now so, if I knew it would be easy choice. I can get the blacks now and order the venner next year. This is what I want to do. But, if I order the venner in M60 and find I really need M80's then I am out alot of money. On the other hand if I order the M60 in black, and they are good enough I can move them into the movie room next year and order the veneer's. case closed.
I really would like to know if I had the M60's and M80's side by side with dual EP500's would I notice any difference ?

I am also, curious if the M80's with out a sub would be sufficient to fill the bottom end in 2ch music in my living room area.

the other thing is I can order the M60'sin black give them a listen, but how much would shipping be to return? because, then that means the M80's just cost me more for the return shipping? and I don't want to spend out $3600 to try out speakers lol

You're comments don't seem to match that of a professional reviewer of Soundstage Magazine that favorably compared Paradigm Monitor 11's to the Axiom M80v3's.

http://www.soundstagexperience.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=280

He also said the VP180 suffered off-axis frequency response issues while the Paradigm center did NOT.

The Monitor series is a lower end series than their Studio series which means the Studio's would really trounce the Axioms.

I auditioned Studio 100's(V4-5?) a couple of years ago and found them very similar to the M80s(V2) in detail, bass extension, clarity and imaging. The Monitor 11's I auditioned weren't comparable to the M80's imo.