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#372261 - 04/06/12 04:09 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Sigh. More fanning of the flames has ensued on Audioholics.

C'mon folks. Move on. No more threads.

John, this is not directed at you.

FWIW, I like my audio equipment. I don't hold it against people that don't like what I do.

Your Studio's are a very nice speaker. Way more 'dead sexy' than Axiom's offerings. Dead sexy costs money, as does channel marketing (which I did for a living for a number of years).

I've listened to a lot of the studio line. Not having done a direct listening comparison to my M80s I cannot say which sounds better. I can tell you that, for the money, the M80 sounds very good and shares the same neutral response as its Studio equivelant.

IF I had done a direct comparison and had found that I thought the equivelant Axiom speaker sounded just as good, it would be foolish of you to be offended. Its just my opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372262 - 04/06/12 04:13 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 304
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
Welcome John,


You visited us here, like an Indian Chief with a peace pipe in hand. You walked on egg shells very nicely, and for that I thank you.
_________________________
"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#372267 - 04/06/12 04:52 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1343
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
John2013, excellent post, you are welcome to come and play here anytime you like.

It's a funny world, we all like music, home theater etc. yet we have to find differences instead of commonality. (I hope that is a real word, I've just spent the bulk of the afternoon digging up grass, I'm beat and my arms are 3" longer).

I see this all the time on the car forums, I like performance cars, period. I happen to own a 'vette but I can and do respect a lot of other makes. The constant Ford v/s Chev v/s imports etc etc drives me crazy. It even has come down to C5 and C6 people arguing over which is best.

btw, my post is better than your post wink
_________________________
getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s

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#372270 - 04/06/12 05:05 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
Ian Offline
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1329
John2013

Thank you for your very well written post. Oddly I just commented on these sorts of posts in another thread as it is stuff like this that allows us to review and improve how we do things at Axiom.

Personally I always hate when asked to give an opinion on a direct comparison of a particular model speaker from another company to one of ours. That said I totally understand why someone would ask the question too. The majority of times we do comparisons to competitor products are when they are brought to us by an owner wishing to do their own A/B comparison, which we will partake in. Most of the measuring and double blind listen testing we do, and it is going on pretty much continuously, is about isolating particular measurements and empirically testing their relevance to the listening experience. These are the building blocks of always moving forward with our designs.

I should hope that if anyone from Axiom is making comparison comments that they have firsthand experience with said products, and I am fairly confident that is the case. But even then it is still most likely going to just be their opinion as there are very few places that have the set up to do controlled double blind listen testing. Most likely just the NRC and a handful of speaker companies, like Axiom, that use double blind testing as part of their research. To complicate matters more it is highly unlikely the said comparison was done in the recent past and the fact is that I would imagine just like us that our competitors are always making product improvements. So out past a year or so these sorts of comparisons are getting a bit stale.

If you ever have the chance to spend some time doing blind listen testing it is an “eye opening” experience. Differences among well designed products are much smaller than one would imagine. In fact the term “similarily good” was originally coined during my NRC days back in the 80s. I believe it was Floyd who came up with it. In double blind listening tests involving two or more well designed products the scores would end up coming out pretty close with a lot of back and forth amongst the various listeners. Though these products would not necessarily sound exactly the same they would both score very high and, when all averaged out, pretty much the same; hence the term “similarily good”. I can see from your post that this term is not well understood and frankly why would it be. Its actually meaning is a compliment to all speakers in the discussion. To say you believe they would be similarily good means you believe they are all well designed products.

In closing I think I may organize a conference call amongst all of us at Axiom that interact with customers and post publicly, and go through your comments one by one to see if we can put together a congruent dos and don’ts list that we all abide by. I think we will probably lose the “similarily good” comment.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#372272 - 04/06/12 05:10 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
john2013 Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 4
Thanks for the kind replies and yes it did feel like walking on eggshells a little. Sometimes words in print can be taken differently than what you were thinking at the time. I know you guys love your axioms and being an axiom forum, you also represent axiom and Ian. I know you would do your best for him as I said before he seems like a nice guy who loves the buisness he is in.

Its nice to hear from Ian or to see posts from him whether its here or somewhere else. It gives a personal touch. There has been lots of stuff over the last couple of weeks and with what went down I thought it might be a good idea to say what I did. A fresh start for everyone. Why Do I visit the axiom forums? Because I like speakers and there arn't many decent forums around. I do check avs, axiom, bluray and audioholics and in that order just to see whats up, whats new, ect.

I do like this site, It,s one of the better looking sites. I know the customer service is good as I called once, no answer as they were busy, did not leave a message and then 10 mintues later brent called me back because of call display which I thought was cool. By the way I do have 1 lonely qs4 in a secondary system and I like it. I also like the product manual that comes with it as it is 1 of the better ones out there.
I just thought with what happended and the way it did, and if Just maybe you looked from a different view that it would be a great time for a fresh start and I do not mean this in a condescending way. Just to look at it from a different angle to understand.

Hope that makes sense and If I post again that I promise to keep it shorter.I love my speakers but you just never know, I could end up with a pair of m22s yet.

On that note please enjoy your friday evening!!

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#372274 - 04/06/12 05:18 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
john2013 Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 4
I must have been typing as Ian posted So I just wanted to thank him for replying. Told you he was a nice guy!! I think that made my weekend just that much better.

Thank you Ian

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#372280 - 04/06/12 05:33 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
Ian Offline
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1329
Hopefully the next time you are in cottage country you will drop in at the Axiom factory. It would be great to meet you and show you our facility.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#372282 - 04/06/12 05:42 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1863
John, i think it is safe to say that if anyone contributes to this form, in a constructive intelligent way their opinion will be respected no matter what their personal opinion is (your post is a prime example)... Where a lot of the members on this form have a problem, is when people come here and just type ignorant and incoherent posts.... If you wright with the intellect of an 8 year old, would one really expect to be taking seriously and treated as an adult?

There were a couple people who were posting negative things on this form, when i attempted to read their posts i got a headache due to the horrid writing.. Granted, not everyone has perfect grammar/spelling/sentence construction ect, but come on at least try to construct a coherent paragraph...

Like Mark said, you took the time to make a well written post. I read your whole post, and and am not steaming due to the poor writing.. So, good job, and thank you! laugh

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#372283 - 04/06/12 05:48 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: Ian]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Ian
If you ever have the chance to spend some time doing blind listen testing it is an “eye opening” experience.

Thats an understatement. The blind listening test you set up for us last summer was the most interesting audio thing I have ever done.

OK, now I'm feeling guilty about calling the Studio 100s dead sexy. I can feel my M80s glaring at me as I type. Do you think I can make them feel better by telling them they are girl next door sexy??
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372285 - 04/06/12 05:52 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10417
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I'm sure they would appreciate it and their performance will improve as well.
_________________________
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70

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