Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say?

Like many of you, I have been wondering what on earth all the vitriolic Axiom-bashing that is showing up on this message board and others is all about. We’ve always followed the same principals of loudspeaker design, and although some aspects may not be considered mainstream, we firmly believe in taking a scientific approach to loudspeaker design, regardless of what the ‘flavour of the month’ is with reviewers, competitors’ products, or trends on message boards. We stick by our research and that makes us unpopular from time to time. That is all part of doing business and of being true to our ethos.

Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way, and today I have some very disturbing news I feel obligated to share. The rampant bashing we have been receiving for some time now has left many of you - and myself - scratching our heads as to what in the world would be causing it. We are beginning to find the answer, and the news is quite shocking. We have evidence that shows that at least one of the bashers, JBall, sends his or her posts from the same IP address that is used by Gene DellaSala from Audioholics when he logs onto our message boards, as well as when he sends emails to Axiom. This has led me to believe that JBall is in fact Gene himself.

As I have mentioned before I was bothered after the opening of the Audioholics store by the fact that we were sending money and product for supposed objective independent review to a competitor in the marketplace. The fact that Audioholics was purporting to be an independent source of reliable commentary while also building up what would best be described as a house brand speaker line did not sit well with me either.

There was some talk after the store first opened of selling our products in the store, which would then at least change it to a quasi-dealer relationship. After much pondering on this we decided that it simply did not fit with our business model and in the summer of 2010 we cut our ties with Audioholics. This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it.

We do have further evidence that shows the scope of the problem is larger than just the postings being made by the IP sharing JBall but we do not yet know the full extent of how deep it really goes. We may or may not investigate it further as we are really not people who wish to spend time delving into this kind of pure negativity. We really just want to have fun with our customers and provide the best products and service we can offer. The majority of people we come in contact with every day are happy with their Axiom products and their experiences with our company, and those are the people we wish to focus on.

I guess if I had to look for a positive in all of this it would be that there is a certain odd flattery in realizing your competition fears what you are doing so much that they would resort to these kinds of tactics. More importantly, I want to thank those of you who have braved the wrath of these people here and on other message boards. I know how draining the negativity can be. I appreciate your support.

In closing I would actually like to extend my apologies to those who make legitimate posts in our forum with real opinions that are not favourable towards us. We watch these sorts of things as they can contain information that leads to product and service improvements. I am not talking about the endless repeaters of the same negative opinion over and over again that we do not agree with and therefore are not going to change. Or those who bash with no firsthand experience with the product they are bashing. That sort of behavior is not constructive to anyone. But to all the others making constructive points, that we need to either respond to with our reasons or change in order to keep making the products and overall experience with Axiom better.

i would investigate further if i was you; you have a business to run, not run it down.

Ian, that's certainly very disturbing. I appreciate your stance on the whole situation, though, and I think customers are going to respond to that.

Speechless

Wow.

You know, Ian, I've found myself thinking that I'm sorry that you, Amie and other Axiom folks have had to deal with all of this.

I know you put your heart into your business and the satisfaction of your customers. Your exemplary customer service demonstrates that.

Thank you for posting this (unfortunately disturbing) news and your thoughts on the matter.

JB, I can assure you they did a complete job investigating and confirming before creating this post. Your comments make no sense, actually the other party is the one that is being unprofessional and running Axiom down for a year or so under a fake name under a rock.

Disturbing if this is the case.

I sure hope that the IP Address thing is correct. If not, there will be hell to pay...

TAM

SirQuack, Ian wrote in his post:"We may or may not investigate it further..."
which is the reason i wrote what i wrote.
he should not let that go.

I wish I thought this was going to help.

Lawyer up, Ian.

I like Axiom products. I respect the Axiom people. I have made many friends here. I am unashamed in my support.

oh I understand, thanks JB, wasn't trying to be negative... cheers my friend!

Although we hear about it every day, we have now a "head on" example of how someone with some influence(and hiding behind a fictional name), is using the internet in a very negative, vicious and cowardly fashion.

This is quite disturbing, although, when one thinks long and hard about it, not particularly surprising. I really could never understand why when this whole thing started to flare up to the degree it did, there was the odd superficial intervention by the principles at Audioholics asking "meekly" to tone down the rhetoric but, in the end, nothing was ever really done to quell the nonsense or ban any of those that were constantly doing it. It would seem Ian's comments, unfortunately, expose exactly why.

In my opinion now, whatever credibility the folks at Audioholics had left, has now totally disappeared.

I agree Casey.

I've spent a few minutes perusing JBall's posts here and it's interesting to say the least. Especially his last one involving the Audioholics shootout.

So Jball is in fact Gene? That's really messed up. I've always had the up most respect for Gene and Audioholics. I'm quite stunned.

Now you probably have the down most respect for him, eh?

I would suspect that should "JBall" never post again then we will, obviously, have our answer.

if he's intelligent enough, then he will post again, just to diminish suspicion.

Where is John when you need him.... Ble, he is probably working.....


Ian, in a way that explains some of the bizar posts made by the user Jball.. He was asking questions in the LFR thread about the case v.s. stamped and would not let it go, also bizar questions in the subwoofer thread... i know i was kind of wondering what was going on.. i guess it makes it clear now.....


I would say do some more investigating, if you can prove it was Gene, then lawyer up and take him down the American/Apple way....

It would be interesting to see if he is feeding the fuel over at audioholics under an assumed used, then logging in as Gene to "save face"

Wasn't audioholics the company that was doing the "subwoofer shoot out" that Ian decided not to participate in? Maybe your gut instinct about them was right on many months ago Ian?

I've long since given up posting in those types of threads and had second thoughts on posting in this one but I would like to thank Ian for posting his views on the events at hand.

JBall is one of the few people I have on ignore here. Audioholics is the site that brought me to Axiom, yet I'll never visit them again, if this turns out to be true. That would be ironic.

Hey, come on now... typo's are an easy and inadvertent oversight.

to me, it was just a misunderstanding; i need more than that in order to read "negative".

Ian, thanks for the inside information. Us true Axiomites as always have your back. We will not be swayed by those who speak with a serpent's tongue, or those who chose too throw daggers from the shadows.

Thanks Ian,

This would make sense now, especially if anyone has seen the "Jball" posts at blu-ray.

I think he posted over there today actually...

and has been reading this post since created.

Yes, I see that...maybe he can respond...

Those of you who understand computing will know better than I, but JBall and Gene having the same IP number means that they are using the same computer (internet connection? Modem?), correct? They, in fact, then may be different people. However, may we assume, at the very least, JBall must have some connection to Gene, Audioholics, or both?

Same Internet connection. There could be 1 computer or 100 computers (or more) behind that connection. If it is always the same IP address, from day to day, it's probably statically assigned, and likely the connection that belongs to a business (most home users don't get static IPs).

Courts have ruled that an IP address does not equal a person, but with other details it can paint a part of the whole picture.

I dunno but wasn't Axiom hacked the other day regarding some credit card scheme....as was posted over at avs and CAM(canuck audio mart)?
Come on people somebody has hacked into Gene's system and using his IP...it freaking happened to me a few yrs back!

I'll let Ian give out the details on the IP address should he want to, but from what he told us, it was fairly conclusive. Not a one off thing.

Ian brought the customer council in on his decision to go public with this, and we are therefore privy to some information/evidence that he did not disclose. I won't disclose it here, but I feel, as an IT professional, I can say that the IP address connection is solid. Some very sophisticated individual would need to have framed Gene in order for the numbers to line up like they did.

And it would have had to be very long term.

So, the real question is, why haven't we used this fancy technology to figure out who bbigwyres is yet?

Or could the person behind bbiggie just be that slick?!

Not much I can add to this. My respect for Axiom, the company and the people has always been strong.

I guess it's the sign of the times that being able to hid behind a keyboard gives the gutless the ability do things that they would never do in a face to face situation.

If it would be possible to pursue this to a satisfactory conclusion I would advise it. If not an old saying comes to mind..."on the internet never argue with an idiot."

Ian and the rest deserve much better than this.

They can't track IP's from BigRigs, they are always heading down the highway and jumping IPs.

Ah, so that's how you do it, Randy.

Hmm, the more I think of it, John Gabriel's Greater Internet Theory is a piece of genius.

Thanks for clarifying things Ian.
I had been reading the bashing over the last few weeks and was rather concerned if buying my Axiom had been a bad choice and perhaps i had been 'duped'. Then to calm my fears, all i had to do was go downstairs to my theatre and put on a few demo blurays, and a couple CDs. At that point i was so happy with what i heard, that quite frankly i didnt care. I was and still am EXTREMELY happy with my Axiom system.

I'm at the "I don't care point" with these issues. I never even bother to read the messages (about this topic) on the other sites anymore.

hey, medic8r, do you have a vanity plate saying the same thing? if you do, i've seen your here in car here in alexandria!

Cat, i think that almost all of us who currently own the product have the same view.. However, potential new customers may be dissuaded from buying Axiom if they read the forums, and formulate an opinion off of what they read. In the long run axiom would not be able to gain market share, which would limit their future ability to increase capital and R&D money...

Indeed he does. I've seen it parked in front of his house.

Small world, huh!?!

just trying to remember, I either see it at the courthouse or cityhall garages.

My current plate is a non-vanity one - someone else is medic8ing up there at the courthouse. He may have gotten stung in an opioid crackdown...

i'll be sure and take a picture of it and post it here for ya!

Depending on how damaging this may have been to sales, I think I'd go after it as well.

This must be the thing to do these days. One of the local DA prosecutors had several on-line aliases and was badmouthing the clients he defended in court - cost him his job and the DA's office is looking at prosecuting him.

Scott

Dakkon, to get back on point, you are correct, if we stop providing input on other forums people can get misinformation from people like Jbally. I used to frequent AVS long before I heard about Axiom. Once I became an Axiom owner, AVS was not a bad place to hang out. There was a lot of good conversation from both sides. Move forward a few years and I just got tired of trying to defend issues. There were a few people that cast a few posts on reasons they didn't like Axiom, and that is ok. Enter the trolls that have other agendas and never go away.

It is not constructive or good for the industry. Most manufacturers have respect for each other and mingle at product shows. This is how everone grows. It is unfortunate that one of those so called professionals would stoop to this type of tactics. I'm sure it goes on more than we know.

All the respect I used to have for the many reviews on Audioholics just got flushed down the old toilet. However, I guess that is not fair for the others that provided articles on that site.

Same here. I have always found Audioholics a very educational place. The go to site for reviews, articles, commentary (controversial or not). I even received a pleasant PM from Gene at this forum under Gene DellaSalla a few years ago.

This is just bizarre and if true destroys his integrity and that of the website. There is a line crossed when you are "in the industry". And I ALWAYS liked Audioholics and supported them on this forum. These are the type of things you learn about that make me want to drop this hobby all together.

Man that's wild about Gene, I never thought somebody in his position would have stooped so low.

What an idiot.

Makes me even more glad that I am a part of the Axiom community.

This really doesnt surprise me in the least. It's sad when someone has an agenda and they hide behind their keyboard.I don't think anyone with a sound mind will read what is at the bluray forum and not see it for what it is. I read it,and i find it quite obvious what the writers intentions are. Furthermore ian, at the very least i would seek council to find out what my options were in regards to slander.Sometime's the best response is none at all. A simple counter reaction is to post ourselve's on those thread and extole the axiom brand virtues.

What we know so far is that the originating IP is Audioholics. The identity of the idiot remains to be determined.

If this were politics, there would be an underling under the bus in short order. I don't know if that's funny, sad or both.

It's more specific than Audioholics, actually.

And Gene responds...

Wow this is certainly turning out to NOT be a “Good Friday”. It’s unfortunate that Axiom posted this without consulting with me first to examine the facts but I can understand their frustration. The reality of this situation is I hired a close friend of the family about 4 years ago who is now a struggling freshman college student in need of cash. I needed assistance at our corporate office to publish editorial content (none of which was written by him as he is NOT a writer) and also help me move heavy audio gear given the recent back issues I’ve been having. Over the years I’ve been mentoring him on the A/V business and having private conversations about the industry in general. What I didn’t realize was the extent in which he was posting on the forums and under the name “JBALL’ without revealing he unofficially does work for Audioholics. I guess I should have suspected why he was billing me 3+ hours to post a 4-5 page editorial that I could do in ½ the time.

I do however take issue with the following statement made by Ian:

“This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it”.

I can only suspect Ian wrote this out of anger when he discovered JBALL was doing work for our organization. I have always wished Axiom well in their business and I simply don’t use that kind of language nor do I recall ever saying such a thing. We have always given Axiom a fair shake in our reviews and editorials including allowing them the opportunity to peer review all content we publish on their products.

Although we have had disagreements on some aspects of loudspeaker design and theory, we’ve always managed to find common ground with each other. I have always considered Ian/Amie as friends, not just business partners.

In any event, I apologize for this incident and deserve the public flaming in the forums as a result. I take full responsibility for JBALL’s actions and feel quite embarrassed and regretful about these chain of events. Certainly mistakes were made on both sides but our goal is to move forward and rebuild the strong relationship we once forged.

I had a great conversation with Ian/Amie about this and assured them he would NEVER be posting on a public A/V forum again. I asked Axiom to suspend JBALL account and remove all negative posts towards Axiom. Thank you for listening.

__________________
Gene DellaSala
President, Audioholics
Pursuing the truth in audio & video...

Gene has just issued a statement...taking full responsibilty...for JBALLs actions.

See above....

cough cough bullshit cough cough.

This is from another forum & member, He said this 1st post Jball ever made on blu ray makes Gene's response all the more interesting...I would have to agree.


Originally Posted by JBALL
The Audioholics review of the M80 system is a joke at best. So are most reviews of Axiom product. They read like a product brochure. I have come to learn you can only read product reviews to get tech data but not real credible opinions. I'd much rather read user experiences on the forums like this one.

I purchased a complete Axiom system b/c of these glowing reviews. I initially liked the system (M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600). Then I started noticing voices weren't very clear if I didn't sit center seat. AVS threads educated me as to why.

The M60v3s don't sound bad, but at high listening, the midrange gets very broken up, and you can see the woofer moving. I found out they don't use a crossover in that part of the speaker!

I recently heard a pair of Sierra Towers side by side and they totally stomped my Axioms so I was fortunate enough to sell my Axiom system (except my QS8s) to my neighbor. I ordered the Sierra Towers and looking forward to the upgrade.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1947

Yeah....he owned up to it but...not knowing come on but to what extent...maybe.

That's pretty bad Gene! Honestly.....

Perhaps, but, my reading the messages isn't going to help anyone.

I have to also say that's one hell of axiom system Jball purchased since according to Gene, he is now a struggling student in need of cash. Plus he just bought Acsend towers after he sold his m60's to his neighbor just recently as well...

Lets go slowly. What Gene says certainly could be the case.

The problem, for us, with his explanation is that, if he himself were culpable in some way (and I'm not saying he is), his explanation is precisely what one would expect to hear - an anonymous, young individual, "unofficially" working for Audioholics, was rogue posting all over the internet, for months, without anyone knowing.

Also, his explanation raises as many questions as it provides answers. Did JBall actually buy and own Axioms as he claimed? Why the hatred for Axiom and its products? We know gtpsuper's and Jinx/Pure-Evil's motivation, what was JBall's?

I am hoping there is more to come from Axiom which will confirm or contradict what Gene has said so we will actually KNOW the facts.

At the least, we now know that Ian was dealing with facts.

Exactly Jack, if Gene was mentoring this kid "over the years", and claims to have respect for Axiom, Ian, and Amie, something is just not right. Why all the evil towards Axiom, and no other companies, and prying for information to be disclosed. Also, many of the comments have knowledge/technical statements that would not come from some 16-18yr old kid, oh yeah he had consulting "over the years". You are what you eat, and you spew what you learn from your mentors. jm2c but to me it is all BS. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. Even if this is true, why would you let someone use your email address to send emails on your behalf. If that is true he would be fired in an instance.

Ok, off to enjoy a beer and forget about this nonsense.

Even after Gene supposedly made up with Axiom, he was still putting little jabs at Axiom into his write-ups. This need to school Axiom on how loudspeakers should be made goes along quite well with the JBall personality. While I don't know all of the facts, and I'm not privy to all of the circumstances leading up to this point, it's hard to buy the story so far.

Hmm... relative under the bus is a creative twist. Seems fishy. I have no idea what to believe, but the bottom line is someone affiliated with Audioholics has been surreptitiously attacking Axiom.

That is a very, very sad thing.

We'll likely never really know for sure.

Indeed!

In re-reading Gene's statement, he mentions the nice "chat" with Ian and Amie, and assured them "he" meaning Jball would no longer cause these types of disruptions. Why not put Jball on the phone or video skype to personally appologize to Amie and Ian. Of course that could be staged as well, but if he is in fact a person, adult, college student, or whatever, that would help confirm he is not fiction.

I agree 100%.

My father used to be a cop, coincidentally in the province of Ontario. One thing he always said that i continue to struggle to apply, is "there are two sides to every story". It is very easy to get caught up in the only side you hear.

Granted there are not enough specifics to peg down the exact 'culprit' but the fact that Gene has admitted to the Audioholics connection at the very least confirms the basis of the story; that someone at Audioholics was targeting Axiom Audio in a malicious and purposeful manner and this is a pretty sad picture of the state of human beings.
There's just too many people out there who are like that...and the world goes round and round, war after war.

What Chris said!

P.S. Haven’t read anything at Audioholics for a couple years, lost credibility when they started reviewing the products they were selling.

The only saving grace for Gene is there is no common similarities to their posting style whatsoever. So in fact it could be true what he says that JBall was an employee of his. Still very concerning that there is an "industry insider" connection.

Well that's easy enough to do. Look at Bbigwyres (however it's spelled).

Seems they closed the thread at Audioholics concerning this.

Amie and I spoke with Gene yesterday and he assured us he would investigate and clean up his internal problems that lead to all these JBall posts over the past few years. We are very happy to see this sort of negativity coming to an end. Audio is a wonderful hobby that brings much enjoyment to the majority of people in it; that is very positive.

Gene has asked that we remove all the JBall posts from our boards which I have already asked Steve to do when he gets to the office. As the regulars on this forum know it is a rare occasion when we delete a post. But I think this is one of those rare occasions where it will be a very good thing.

That good to hear Ian but one thing that I find a bit off is; how can this be.........."the reality of this situation is I hired a close friend of the family about 4 years ago who is now a struggling freshman college student in need of cash."

And he buys a system that consists of...M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600. That adds up to $3,758.20 USD. Struggling? Right!

Nah, the dude never bought anything. If you look at his post history, he switched between M80s and M60s (mysteriously) sometime about halfway through.

Just read through this thread after a couple of days away from the 'puter....

Unbelieveable.

Ian, I'm sorry you have to put up with this BS.

Struggling maybe because he was buying expensive audio gear whilst going to college and paying tuition fees....oh btw...he mentioned(jball that is)of being married over on blu ray because apparently he borrowed his wifes camera to take pictures of his new Ascends....but his profile there has being deleted and likewise here.

I am pretty dissapointed with what tranpired yesterday...I might just stick to owners forums like this and Ascend forum!

I still think Jball needs to be the one who apologizes, not just Gene assuring he will address the issue. Until then I still think it is bogus.

I have a pretty sensitive BS meter, and it's pegged. Gene owns this nonsense in its entirety, regardless to who Jball really is.

I don't need an apology from JBall. Ian has led the way with forgiveness and conclusion and I intend to follow his lead.

Why are you choosing to believe his statements at all?
There's no fishyness when a web is weaved and none of it holds water.

Audioholics has admitted to the connection. Who cares what more lies beyond that?
Time to move on.
Nothing LEFT to see here.

Chess, when did you become a moderator?

You are 100% right about that.
I am looking for a new HT setup for my home and for the last 3 months have been looking at many brands.
I am not able to go out and "audition" and speakers so I am relying on other peoples experiences and so called "professional" reviews.
I had never heard of Axiom before, but when it was recommended to me I decided to check them out.
After going to the site and seeing the choices of speakers and that the fell in the $ of what I was wanting to spend, I then set off to the forums to find out opinions of those had or do own Axioms.
First stop as always was AVS, where I found alot of positive info until I ran into "gtpsuper24" who went out of his way to bash everything about Axiom.So from there I moved onto the Blu-ray.com forum and ran into the same guy again, and then finally to the Audioholics forum and there again with nothing but negativity.
And I have to admit reading all these negative comments from several different people it really made me remove Axiom from my list that I was considering for purchase, but now after all this new information coming out I will give them a second look.
Just my 2 cents that yes negative comments can definitely can hurt a company.

Thanks
Rustolem

[b][/b]
Wow never really thought of that, you hit the nail on the head. I didn't realize until a few months ago that Audioholics had and actual online store. Which does make it kinda hard to give credence to a supposed impartial review from someone who is also selling the product.

Thanks for pointing that out!
Rustolem

Just calling it like i see it.
Rubberneckers move along.
The wreck is over.

Rustolem, do you know you can order Axiom speakers, try them in your home for 30 days (that leaves you time to set them up properly for a good listen), and send them back if you don't like them.

when i got mine, M80's, i had a bad midrange driver; i wrote Axiom and a few days later i had a new driver in the mail.

from that moment on, i never looked back and after many months owning them, i'm still struck with wonder at how good those speakers are.

it's not everything that sounds good with Axiom speakers, in fact they're so good that they will show you instantly when a recording is not of top quality.

there's a good appreciation of Axiom speakers written by an audio engineer here: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95875&page=110
Post 2181.

Also: welcome to the Axiom forum. :-)

P.S.: you can also check if someone in your area would be willing to give you a demo of his Axiom speakers; have a look here:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=184230#Post184230

Welcome Rust! Hang out a bit and enjoy the ride. If you decide to give Axiom a shot, I think you will like what you hear.