Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 6 of 18 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 17 18
Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381467 08/14/12 03:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
E
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
Yup, it's interesting how 'Global Warming' morphed into 'Climate Change' several years ago when the 'evidence' wasn't really apparent & it couldn't be sold anymore under that banner...

TAM

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381476 08/14/12 04:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,477
Likes: 9
2x6spds Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,477
Likes: 9
What an interesting conversation.

I am for clean air and clean water as well XLD. The Central Valley of California, one of the most productive agricultural areas in the world is being turned into a dust bowl because of EPA restrictions. The designation of the Delta Smelt as an endangered species has destroyed Central Valley agriculture.

The Keystone Pipeline, which would bring Canadian oil to our refineries in the Gulf Coast area, stalled by Obama's radical EPA. The Chinese will finance a pipeline to the Pacific.

The United States sits on the greatest coal reserves in the world. The EPA has issued new proposed rules on carbon emissions that will help Obama keep one campaign promise: Builders of new coal fired power plants won’t be prevented from building coal-fired power plants, they’ll just go bankrupt if they try.

The US has an abundance of natural gas but EPA regulations will disable the exploitation of this fabulous resource.

It is not possible to build a refinery because of EPA regulations.

Carbon credits would have destroyed our energy sector in one stroke and resulted in a huge transfer of wealth from the US and the advanced industrial sector to sh!t holes like Northern Sudan and Somalia.

Global warming and radical environmental agenda of deconstructing our industrial and energy capacity work together to impoverish our society in the name of environmentalism.

Wait a minute. Maybe the sky is falling.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381483 08/14/12 07:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,825
Likes: 1
C
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
C
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,825
Likes: 1
I'm not read up on any of this stuff, so ignore this whole post.

I have a hard time believing there's a huge conspiracy among scientists to make mankind accountable for something that isn't our fault. On the other hand, I agree to a point with people who argue that the planet is going to cycle through some extreme conditions on its own. The dinosaurs weren't polluting the planet, as far as I know, and it didn't save them. Like I said, I'm not current, but when I've heard people talk about the state of the environment based on man's influence, it seems we're at the point of inevitability. Even if we stopped all carbon emissions, would it be enough? I believe in being thoughtful, but it's not realistic to expect people to give up the comforts they've grown accustomed to.

Even if the whole thing is a scam, I think it DOES give us the opportunity to do things better, and the US needs something new to excel at and export, so I'm all for getting what we can out of it. Fossil fuels aren't going to last forever, and it sure would be nice if we could make ourselves independent in that regard. We'll get ourselves into fewer wars that way, right?

In any case, I think it's a stretch to think that billions of humans have zero effect on the environment. Would the Earth still do something major to reduce our population at some point? Without a doubt. To ignore any impact we may be having is like saying, "Well, we're going to die at some point, anyway, so we may as well commit suicide."

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381484 08/14/12 07:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
E
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
Tonight I watched a 2-hour program on The History Channel called 'Titanoboa'. In an open pit coal mine in Columbia, scientists recently found fossilized remains of a fearsome, gigantic boa-type of snake that was about 48' long with an estimated weight of 2500 lbs. Also found there were the remains of huge crocs, turtles & plants from 60 million years ago that all dwarf anything today.

Their hypothesis is that the only way that these creatures & plants could have grown that large is due to a far warmer climate at that time than we have presently - probably at least an average of 5 degrees C warmer globally than now. Interestingly, there were no smokestacks back then.

In the past our climate has been both much warmer & far colder than now. Despite humankind's activities on this rock, our climate will continue to fluctuate naturally over the eons until the eventual demise of our sun...

TAM

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381502 08/14/12 02:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
Concerning Greenland and Iceland, I heard that it was named this way by Vikings to protect Iceland from outsiders. Make people think it was covered in ice and divert them to Greenland instead.

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381505 08/14/12 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,291
J
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,291
Greenland was so named in order to bring more people to that island.
it's also true that at the time the climate was a few degrees warmer there than it was in the next few centuries, and farming benefited from it.

Last edited by J. B.; 08/14/12 02:59 PM.
Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381510 08/14/12 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 30
G
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
G
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: GuitarStv
Upon what research are you basing your claims exlabdriver?


Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I've been watching this stuff with great interest from all sides for a couple of decades. With all of the conflicting, questionable information & political ideology coming from all sides, I've become so cynical that I hardly believe anything from any of the camps anymore - including scientists. I'm just using my own twisted logic & what I think is solid common sense (an attribute that is often not appreciated anymore & is now quite uncommon).

The fact is that climate change is normal & will continue to be so. I believe that human activity has had little impact on what is happening, although over time, detrimental effects may become a factor if we keep reproducing in the way that we are.

Most volcanic eruptions can easily overwhelm all the perceived good that all of the global green initiatives to date have accomplished. That is not to say that green initiatives aren't laudable, because they can be, as long as they are cost effective & within reason; however, spending close to $1 Million last year in my small town to create some bicycle lanes to cater to a miniscule number of local cyclists (several are on town council who seem to carry the day in these matters) is bloody ridiculous. In my travels around here, I rarely see any bicycles using them although scores of vehicles regularly use these shared routes. I suggest that this particular green initiative is a fine example of not being cost effective nor reasonable - and we wonder why most of our governments are financially broke...

TAM


A simple "I made it all up" would suffice.

Belief that scientists around the world are part of some global conspiracy regarding climate change shows very poor understanding of the fundamental tenants of science, and the way that it is practiced. When coupled with the fact that you can't bring anything to the discussion other than personal opinion gleaned from a few sensational news headlines indicates either a willful rejection of reason (embracing faith over data), or an inability to understand the information that is readily available . . . either way rational debate has clearly come to a close.

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
exlabdriver #381511 08/14/12 03:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 863
Likes: 1
C
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
C
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 863
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
Tonight I watched a 2-hour program on The History Channel called 'Titanoboa'. In an open pit coal mine in Columbia, scientists recently found fossilized remains of a fearsome, gigantic boa-type of snake that was about 48' long with an estimated weight of 2500 lbs. Also found there were the remains of huge crocs, turtles & plants from 60 million years ago that all dwarf anything today.

Their hypothesis is that the only way that these creatures & plants could have grown that large is due to a far warmer climate at that time than we have presently - probably at least an average of 5 degrees C warmer globally than now. Interestingly, there were no smokestacks back then.

In the past our climate has been both much warmer & far colder than now. Despite humankind's activities on this rock, our climate will continue to fluctuate naturally over the eons until the eventual demise of our sun...

TAM



I saw that same documentary, very interesting and I must admit their hypothesis about climate in relation to the enormous size of these prehistoric, especially cold-blooded animals, is quite intriguing and makes a lot of sense even in relation to the size of certain animals today and where they inhabit.

I would think the question that has to be asked is how long did it take for those animals to grow that large in that significantly warmer climate? The Burmese pythons that are not supposed to be in the Florida everglades, according to scientists, are already noticeably larger than when they were first found in that environment and that wasn't that long ago.

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
2x6spds #381513 08/14/12 05:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
E
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
Guitar:

I have never accused scientists of banding together & being part of a global conspiracy.

From what I've seen, there are a number of data packs that are being used to prove each camp's point of view. One camp says that we've been continually warming, the other says that we've actually cooled slightly over the past 10 years. Who does one believe - that stalwart organization, the UN IPCC? So don't tell us to blindly believe 'The Official Data' as it is deemed to be quite questionable by many learned folks as is the computer modelling that is being used to predict this stuff.

The Gores & Suzukis of this world demand that we believe that only their data is correct & that their predictions & assumptions are infallible so all debate must cease - they won't even answer contrary questions on the matter. That's not how proper science is supposed to work. There are dissenting points of view that need to be heard, investigated & debated as well.

That's all that we are doing here.

BTW, I read in the paper yesterday that the Capital Region around Victoria, BC is looking into spending up to $220 Million on bike lanes over the next while - all when we're so far in debt that we'll probably never get out. Is this a reasonable green expenditure? It sure is not to me...

TAM

Re: Global Warming - We've Been Here Before
GuitarStv #381514 08/14/12 06:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
T
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
Originally Posted By: GuitarStv
Belief that scientists around the world are part of some global conspiracy regarding climate change shows very poor understanding of the fundamental tenants of science, and the way that it is practiced.


I think I have a pretty good grasp of both the tenets and the tenants of science.

The tenets should be practiced in such a way that the tenants have no vested interest in the results. Unfortunately, ongoing funding for research in climate change is contingent upon proof of not only climate change, but also that the change is bad and that modifying human behavior can make it less bad. Jobs are at stake. Sweeping that little detail under the rug completely ignores the real economic needs of the scientific community and also basic human nature.

I know a few scientists. They are people, too.

Oh, and Gaia theorist James Lovelock gets less hysterical.

Quote:
He still believes that climate change is a real and present danger but that its effects will probably be longer-term and less clear cut than was thought even a decade ago.


Good article.

You know, "balance" is a good thing, and let's not have The Perfect be the enemy of The Good, and all that.

Originally Posted By: GuitarStv
A simple "I made it all up" would suffice...either way rational debate has clearly come to a close.


Well, since you put it that way, I guess you're right.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Page 6 of 18 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 17 18

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,426
Posts432,865
Members15,427
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,437
SirQuack 13,693
CV 11,825
MarkSJohnson 11,451
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 106 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4