Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler AVS Again

Whenever Axiom is mentioned over there, you can be sure that our old nemesis still immediately jumps in, steering people away from some really fine audio products. Not enough 'wow factor', which I guess means not enough 'colouration factor'.

Sad considering that the potential customer is in Canada that makes purchasing so easy:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433941/basement-build-axiom-m80-vs-kef-q900-vs-psb-image-t6

TAM

Keep all this in perspective in that it is basically one or two clowns who have nothing positive to say about much of anything and in the process, feebly attempt to elevate their "alleged" audio/video snobbery by displaying that they know more about this stuff than anyone else.

Remember, Ian exposed these people for what they are and their credibility is basically non-existent and along with that I doubt Axiom's sales have suffered anyway. They just get too many positive reviews from other much more credible organizations.

I'll be stupid and bite...

Nick, I like the new avatar. Super Calvin?

Supendous Man!

I made my post. I am sure that GTPSuper will say something, but I tried not to put his name into the post or mention Axiom too much. I tried to give some level of advice that would benefit ANYONE looking into speaker lines. AVS people have STRONG biases towards whatever equipment that they happen to own, and some newer people (the original poster is up to a total of 4 posts at this time) on the site may not realize that without someone trying to come in and guide them along the crazy way.

Fun stat. GTPSuper has almost exactly 23% of his total post count at AVS where he specifically mentions Axiom in his post. There were some very positive things that he said back around 2009 when he joined AVS, and then he spent a bulk of that 23% to bash Axiom for reasons, as mentioned above, that have been pretty much debunked already. There are others there too, but he just keeps coming up a lot.

EDIT: Hey wow. There is a lot of Stupendous Man in this thread. That makes the thread itself stupendous! Woohoo!

Another Axiomite described him as GTpeasoupR in a PM, so I chuckle whenever his name comes up.

Sorry to interrupt your reign, Stupendous Man! Calvin and Hobbes was one of the highlights of my college newspaper. Fond memories. Carry on!

I own all of the books and have read them all, in order, despite the many newspaper readings as well. I could relate so much. Minus the tiger though.

It was always a treat to find a snowman strip. The things he did to those poor snowmen!

Here is one for you then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq8iyhMFLYE

nick:

Very thoughtful post over there, although I'm sure that this will not be the end of this never ending crap.

Well done & thanks...

TAM

Judging by GTsuper's replies he is gene from AH ? Something i noticed looking at his other threads. No matter what he replies to, his response is basically negative towards the OP. Its like ,nothing is worthwhile unless he endorse's it. Hopefully others see through his BS.

I just wanted to try to make sure that a new person over at AVS with only 4 posts got some word of caution.

He is not Gene. Gene actually slapped the guy down hard for trashing Axiom so much in non related threads.

Well, sticking up for the little guy over at AVS has gotten me flamed and attacked over there... AGAIN. I simply state the the original poster of the thread, who is a new person at AVS, shouldn't let the opinion of one or two guys who are known for bashing Axiom totally discredit a product. I tried to leave it to very helpful information without calling names, and he came back on full attack.

He OBVIOUSLY either visits here a lot, or someone here tipped him off to this thread as he copied/pasted screenshots of my responses here. So I am a little pissed off. At GTPStupid (yea, I am sure he will read this) as well as whomever here potentially threw me under the bus for simply trying to help.

Maybe it was pure CHANCE that GTP saw this thread, but I doubt it. Unless, like I said, he is reading these forums all of the time, but like I said I doubt it. Needless to say, I am signing off for a while to cool down. Of course, that too is exactly what GTPStupid wants. At least I know that I am not some butt-wipe. I am sure that this will make its way over to AVS too. Oh joy. So much to look forward to just for helping someone regardless of what product was being bashed.

I wouldn't worry about this guy. He is obviously a keyboard critic, and a legend in his own mind. He seems to take issue with whatever product people ask about, believing he is the only one with the correct answer. Like they say,never argue with an idiot,the people watching dont know which is which. It seems that the thread has died.I find that responding to thread's like that just paints us as fanboy's and makes things worse. The OP seemed like a pretty astute person and im sure he could see through the negativity.

After rereading GT's post i wonder how someone can own a product , resell said product and then bash said product. Apparently whoever bought said product felt it was a good product. Not every product suit's everybody.

richard

It continues.

Unfortunately, this is one of the problems with the net & its anonymity. While it can provide a wealth of information for us all, anything negative (valid or not) hangs around forever & is continually regurgitated years later. It just never goes away & I believe can unduly influence those who can't or don't think for themselves.

Eventually this has to cause some damage to any entities at which this stuff is directed. Search engines are not their friend in this respect.

From what I've seen all over the net, there are so many who cannot bring themselves to choose products on their own - it seems to have be a massive group effort. Just look at the number of threads that pop up daily that beseech others to make their choice for them, even though a simple search back for over a month would provide more information & opinions than one can ever assimilate. There is often no real need to start a new thread to pose the same questions over & over. Thus all of the reoccurring themes, opinions & sometimes heated debates (often by the same crews) are continually replicated & stay around forever.

I need to stop patrolling these other forums for my own mental health; however, some valid & helpful information is sometimes lurking out there & I don't want to miss it...

TAM

The problem is it is easier for someone to start their own thread and follow it than to search for the information they desire, thus the never ending cycle.

jake:

I guess that I'm in the minority. I search, research & search again before I ever post. Hopefully my queries get answered so that I never have to post.

For most it may be a pain in the butt, but I actually find researching on the net to be quite enjoyable. I think that a lot of it is due to the 'I demand it now' syndrome that is so prevalent today without expending any effort. It also seems that many want to have their choices 'peer approved' - it's good for their self esteem I guess...

TAM

This is an old thread, so I don't expect much comment.

However, I was the OP at the AVS thread and I very much appreciated nickbuol's interjection within the thread. As I stated in the AVS thread, I was open to all opinions-- and boy did I get them from one in particular.

AVS forum is full of people that are very polarised and negative. Most come off as helpful, but there are a few that are obviously negative by nature.

Overall, I enjoy speninding time here- even though I don't own any axiom products, because the environment is much more congenial. Even when debate occurs, it is done with respect, reason and sensibility.

So thanks to all, and don't let the fanboys get you down!

Things used to be the same way here. Then JP joined and we all started getting FedEx packages from him. Now, we're all serene-like.

The Stepford Forums!

I'm glad you kept an open mind. Some people really don't seem to have much of a life.

I just got my first set of Axiom speakers last week. I got a pair of M80's, a VP180, and a pair of QS8's and I have to say so far I am really impressed with the setup. I did some research before I bought them and I also stumbled upon the AVS forum and saw a lot of negative post. What impressed me though is one of the Axiom employee's chimed in to discuss Axioms even though the forum was clearly trying to discredit Axiom. I did some further research and read a bunch of the profession reviews posted at some of the magazine sites and found those to be pretty positive. I decided to give Axiom a try despite what I saw at AVS, I figured I had 30 days to return them if I really didn't like them. Let's just say I won't be sending them back.

I paired them with a new Pioneer SC-67 receiver to make sure I had plenty of power to drive the M80's and I couldn't be happier. I already owned a nice SVS sub so I kept that and I am happy with how it pairs with the Axioms

Welcome!

I remember having a similar hesitation before purchasing, but I don't recall any of the nay sayers having owned Axiom products, so I figured it was sour grapes. I have not looked back since... nor have I visited AVS much except when linked here.

I hope you continue to enjoy your system.

colson:

Welcome.

Thankfully you seem to have a strong, independent mind unlike so much of the general 'herd' out there.

We're glad that you weren't mislead by the negative opinions of a few that are often based on hearsay & misinformation...

TAM

AVS could be a decent site if the moderators actually did their job, shame since there are some decent members there despite the trolling and baiting that seems common. I frequent another audio site that has pretty much zero tolerance for that kind of riff raff.

You've been seeing another forum? How long has this being going on? Do you love this other forum, or was it a fling?

I had a chance to watch a couple movies this weekend and the more I listen the more I am enjoying the new Axioms. The VP180 center channel is great, no more struggling to hear dialog. I did get in on the last day of the thanksgiving gift card deal so I have a $600 Axiom gift card that I'm going to use to get another set of QS8's for the rears.

Colson,
I've had my M80s and QS8s for maybe a year now - not sure about how long, too engrossed in the music - and i still appreciate them more as time goes on.

the M80s are so precise and detailed that sometimes it's like scrutinizing details in the sound with a microscope.
it's so realistic and detailed!

That's because at AVS you get 20 pages of flamers while here you get 2 posts deep before it is hijacked into a thread about beer, wine, cats or someone's excessive flatulence (we won't mention who).

Please leave the cats out of this.

Hey, its not his fault your cats have flatulence

Why are cat farts always the Silent But Deadly kind?

They aren't silent. You're hard of hearing.

diyaudio

I haven't been a member there for too long, but it's an excellent place to learn. On a sidenote, their forum appear's to have a delay on any postings, maybe a moderator reads them first? this would weed out the trolls, I would think, maybe re-direct them over to AVS.

I don't need to know her name, and I CERTAINLY don't need to hear that she does "things" better than us!!!

"diy" would have been a good name for some previous girlfriends.

After a nice period of quiet, the crap has resumed with a vengeance from the same characters - one doesn't like the look of the port for gawd sakes. I again put in my 2 cents worth.

Don't go there if you have blood pressure problems:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400958/axiom-m60-v3-emptek-e55ti-or-aperion-intimus-5t

TAM

How dare they mock our gorilla ports!

I wish people had the ability to step back and see how idiotic their posts make them look. Does he think Ian was reading Breakfast of Champions, pointed to an asterisk, and said,

"That's what the new ports are going to look like! We'll tell people it reduces port noise and we'll laugh all the way to the bank while thousands buy our ass-ported speakers!"

I want one!

I'm the furthest thing from a confrontational person & I'd much rather not participate in this juvenile crap; however, the outrageously biased & blatant misinformation over there just irks me to the core.

Call me stoopid, but I just can't let it go unchallenged...

TAM

ha , it was an old thread but I had to go and give him a tongue lashing just the same. That guy is malicious, im not sure what the hell Ian did to piss him off but im sure there are other speakers worse than Axioms LOL

OH and that whole cast basket stuff is BS. A little driver like a 5.25 could not possibly stress a steel basket. My car is made of stamped steel and I drive it with confidence.

About 8 mths ago I bought a phono preamp and no matter what I did it just did not work as I wanted it to. Eventually it was returned and I got a refund, lost a little on the shipping ,no biggy. Now I have a preamp I really love . I could go online and bash the other company and probably do some serious damage to their reputation. Im just no like that, and there is nothing in it for me , which makes me wonder why GT is so hell bent on defaming axiom. Now I am by no means an axiom fanboy in any way shape or form. Are they the best ? NO they are decent for the money and they are great for movies. So my beef with GT is not from a fanboy point of view its from a civilized society point of view. The few tend to ruin things for the many all the while hiding behind their keyboard. Darn you TAM ya got me might riled I feel better, had to say my piece. AAAhhhh

Thanks for chiming in - I always feel lonely over there.

A short story from me. I bought a new, early production 2007 CUV from a large Asian auto manufacturer. Although I loved the vehicle's design & performance, unfortunately I found out on the net that I had predicable, multiple major mechanical problems coming down the road. Seems that it came to market a year too early. Although the local dealer took really good care of me, after 4 years of major repairs (all under warranty but majorly inconvenient) I'd had enough when I found that now timing chains were breaking. Hence I switched to my present trouble free CUV.

Unlike speakers that are rather unimportant in one's life (sorry Ian, ha!), a $40K vehicle that is one's main transportation is. Once I traded in the bad vehicle, I was through with its forums & all reference to it in my life. As a mature & pragmatic individual, I put out $20K that I hadn't intended to, licked my wounds & got on with my life. I wouldn't even think of frequenting the forums or the net for years to continually slag the other manufacturer, although I probably had ample justification to do so - certainly more than not liking a damn speaker. It's just not in me to initiate nor participate in this kind of vile, juvenile behavior.

I find it all quite tiresome, unnecessary & yes, despicable. It's an entertainment pastime for heaven's sake, not a religion...

TAM

Its exhausting , patrolling the internet and setting people straight. LOL

I'm afraid to click the last link. After the personal attacks I received in addition to GT's idiotic banter, I left that whole AVS forum section.

I'm still in the game - just for fun head on over to see where we are...

TAM

I read it, and won't post. GT like to make the blind claims that Axiom people (staff or forum members) started this whole "war" by calling him names, etc. He blames this community for the things that he did and still does himself.

Honestly, I think that he has some really good things to say about many topics, but his bashing just for the sake of steering people away is stupid. Kind of like that annoying little kid that keeps saying "I'm not touching you... I'm not touching you..." over and over and over while poking their finger towards your face. They serve no purpose but to annoy the crap out of someone and provide no real value. At some point someone needs to smack the kid upside the head (GT, when you read this, I am not saying to punch, stab, maul, kill, just smack like your mamma would do when you got out of line) so that maybe they realize that THEY are the troll, THEY are the moron, THEY are the buffoon that is just making an ass of themself.

Unfortunately, logic and reason conveyed with a calm tone (or aggressive one) hasn't done it since the guy is sitting at home in Ohio where nobody but his mamma knows where he lives. :-)

Was checking out the ARX A1's through a google search for reviews and came across This . Really well written and concise review. Then as I read along in the thread, in jumps GT and rather than reiterate that he like's the ARX's he jumps on the bash axiom wagon. I feel bad for him really,must be a heavy load to carry around every day ,how axiom has ruined his life by selling him those speakers . Seriously he coulda returned them and moved on. The way he talks he auditioned a lot of speakers yet its the axioms that bother him the most.
Wah Wah

exlabdriver and Socketman you guy's both pushed your points across nicely, and did so by adhering to my signature line as well. Good job!

Thanks for the insult Gary but I disagree.

Socketman, I read his post as a compliment.

Me too, dogface.

I mean, nice avatar, Peter.

well to me he is implying im arguing with an idiot which in turn makes me one as well. i for one am not arguing with anyone ,merely exercising my right to an opinion. I called no names at anyone ,just hoping to point out that gt was out of line.

Unless you adhere to his sig line, as he said you did. He was saying that you represented yourself well, that you did not act like an idiot when you were arguing with an idiot.

Sorry guys, but I felt that someone should provide contrasting opinions to some of the negativity over there that has gone largely unchallenged for over a year. It was done on my own initiative (despite what some think - no, I didn't get free speakers!) to provide other readers there some insight as to what has been unending & misguided postings over there. Hopefully they will see it for what it is. It is not something that I enjoy participating in & would rather not; however, I really hate that kind of malicious crap that is unjust & unwarranted.

If that makes me an idiot, then I wear that moniker proudly.

I'm now done with that thread - check out my last post. Until the next time...

TAM

exlabdriver and Socketman, I don't read AVS, but I suspect that you each made a valiant effort, and, not that you need it, of course, but you have my blessing and best wishes. More power to ya, brothers. Just wanted to clarify that I'm not so much trying to tell anyone what to do, but rather give a friendly warning/reminder of what one might expect if he chooses to go there.

Yup, I hear ya!

I thought that I was wiser now that I'm older, but I guess not...

Just like all of the unwarranted negative posts that will remain in the ether forever & unfortunately will continue to pop up during web searches, my feeble attempts at contrasting views, facts & arguments will also.

Hopefully someone will benefit from this sorry discourse...

TAM

Amazing - some in the AVS 'ARX Owner's Thread' just went to battle with each other over minor stuff that I don't understand. The moderator had to step in with a 'Knock it off' warning.

Where was an AVS Moderator when I could have used one?

Reminds me why I like it here...

TAM

Thank you medic8r, you are a 100% correct, that is what I was trying to convey. Socketman sorry for any confusion.

Quite early on i stopped reading over at AVS (oh probably more than 8 years ago).
Clearly they don't really have moderators. For some time i figured it was just an open site some guy slapped up on a server since anything short of threats don't seem to garner any response from the site owners.

Far more than any other site i've attended, AVS really attracts alot of idiots and flamers. There are some more informed folk of course, but they can be found at other more cordial audio sites which are better places to converse with them.

Forget AVS.
Too much useless info to sort through.

I love it Tom.
Is that a Tuttle original painting?

Literally, the signal-to-noise ratio is too low there.

After I bought my Panasonic 65VT50 TV, I spent a lot of time reading and leaving messages on avsforum. I don't think I really learned a whole lot by doing that. Mostly, it was people inquiring and answers to, will this plasma have any IR (Image Retention). The last time I went back there, I see it's still a lot of the same questions and answers, only hundreds of pages deep.

Nah, Chess, shamelessly stolen from teh interwebz.

I don't know - I glean a lot of pertinent tidbits & knowledge from AVS, Audioholics & Blu-Ray Forums. Keeps me abreast of the latest developments outside of the Axiom community & I like to help in the few areas that I am somewhat knowledgeable. It's best when confrontation remains out of it.

There is a lot repetition though, such as the incessant 'Choose Speakers for Me' threads that pop up in quantity every day by many that won't put the effort into doing their homework. That is of little interest to me...

TAM

Yes, I'll admit to using AVS periodically as a resource because of the folks there who actually do "science". Because of the very broad user base, it does end up having a lot of good information.

But, yes, the S/N ratio isn't very good. And I was happier at Audioholics until Gene lost his mind relative to Axiom.

I use AVS for their theater build threads and some demo blu-ray threads. I might jump into an owner's thread or movie review from time to time, but not very often, and I stay as far away as possible from the "which XYZ system should I get" type of threads.

I am with you nick. the hometheater thread is the best and they have some great guys around that area. The Audio stuff is dominated by a few guys who are quite knowledgeable but they over hype audyssey IMHO.Batpig and JDsmoothie know a lot about the denons and they are helpful when it comes to setting everything up and deciphering the manual. The denon manual is horrible and yamaha's is even worse. I spent a lot of time at the hdtv forum to keep up with the latest plasma and oled tech but that has slowed to a trickle.The tone there isn't the greatest though, little too much ego for my taste so I only read and seldom post.