Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners It's that TV time of year again...what to buy...

So, i was going to wait until i did so more research on the topic, including combing through any recent posts in the Axiom forums (if the search engine provided any useful hits), but what the heck.
I'm throwing out yet another, "what tv should i buy" queries. Since this unit will likely be in this spot for quite some time, i may as well get as much feedback as possible before spending any dollars on it, whether that is $500 or $2000.

To help narrow things down, i do have a list of wants and nots.

1. I hate LCD (light bleed, lower contrast esp. off axis and visual lag).
2. I hate LED LCD a bit less (less bleed, more contrast, allegedly better visual lag). If only OLED was already here and affordable.
3. I love and yet hate plasma (great contrast, no lag, more power consumption comparatively, overall more expensive).
4. Size will be limited to about 40"-46". I can check but i am fairly certain a 50" will look too large on its intended wall.
5. The use is for a main living room which has a large picture window on the opposite wall with southern exposure (e.g. lots of light). No, we do not have heavy light limiting curtains at the moment and more light comes in from the adjacent eating nook and kitchen anyway.
   Additionally, the tv would be viewed off axis from these areas as well so one can see how LCD starts to lose even more ground as an option here.
6. I love but more hate glossy screens.
7. 3D sucks and i have no use for it until someone invents true holographic TVs.
8. Wireless capability i can probably take or leave. I'm not sure i would really use it. We don't subscribe to any online streaming sites. Anything streamed from computer would be through a much better system than a tv wireless connection.
9. Budget: i'm always happy to pay less of course, but realistically we're looking for something that isn't crazy feature loaded necessarily and with recent price reductions over the past years, i figure we should be able to get something to fit the bill for less than $1700. But for a 40" unit these days, feature rich is possible at around $1200 for LED that i've seen.

That's the general list. I can add a bit of specifics and clarification of some points.

The present situation:
We have a Phillips 31" LCD bought about 3 or 4 years ago which is being moved to a bedroom. I've always hated the visual 'lag' in fast motion scenes (VERY prominent at least to me when i first watched a HD hockey game). I also don't find the contrast to be particularly good and the speakers have issues if it is turned too loud (good thing i have a stereo system hooked up to it).
The old crt relic in our bedroom died, so this Phillips is making the move and our family room needs a new unit. I was really hoping to get by until OLED became more mainstream.

Surrounding components include:

• Panasonic dvdp (no HDMI out)
• Cambridge Azur receiver (unsure of HDMI status, would have to check)
• Bell satellite (HDMI capable)

Although i don't use HDMI presently (on any system we have), at some point i probably will. It is just unlikely i will need a tv with multiple HDMI inputs (certainly no more than two otherwise i'd update my receiver with HDMI inputs and use it as the switcher anyway).

Glossy screen love and hate:
Although i really like how a glossy screen makes the sharpness and colours pop, a glossy screen in this room will likely be a real pain in the @ss. The glare off of so many light sources would be horrendous. I bought my father a LCD glossy screen monitor a few years back and even in my darkened office i could see the glare of my face as it was lit by the screen!
Glossy screens can really suck. I don't want an annoying tv for another 10 years.
Is it possible to angle the tv downward if wall mounted to help?
Or matte screen only?
How many plasma or LED out there have a matte screens though? (not many from what i've seen).
I'm uncertain if limiting myself to a matte screen only unit will limit the choices to something that is a so so unit.
This LG is an example where it apparently has a matte screen but i gather from the review there might be others of better quality (still a larger unit than what i'm shopping for as well).
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-lg-50pm9700-3d-plasma-hdtv

If anyone has gone down this road before in the past year, and i'm sure some have, and you have considered the same "problems" of each of the tech and your specific location is similar with a well lit room, i would love to hear your thoughts on final selection of a unit, or if anyone else in the peanut gallery has something to add i expect the thread to be hijacked within 3 posts anyway.

I know the perfect tv, if only it wasn't a 70 incher. It's one of the Sharp, non-elite models. This one ran for just under $3000. I know it's not what you're looking for, but may help lead you into the right direction. Unlike the expensive Elite models, this one had excellent off axis viewing. It was in a room with a lot of windows and I never noticed any glare. It was an edge lit LED-LCD.

This would have been my 2nd choice if I had known about it when I bought a 65 inch Panasonic plasma.

If you can get into the 50" class tvs then your options open up. Not much to choose from in quality plasmas anymore in the 40-49" class. Seems like LCD is the more affordable choice for your size, but there are comprimises as you mentioned.

I am a big Panasonic plasma fan.

My money would be spent on either:

TCP50ST50 or TCP50GT50

Wall mounting and angled down at the viewing position will cut down on room glare from lights and such. Don't mount opposing a window if possible. You will make a mirror. Good luck.

Well if they have a same model but smaller size i can take a look. I've heard both good and negative things about the Sharp tvs.

I do plan on heading into some stores to check out the glare factor if that is even possible given that they often dim the lights in those sections of the store. I might bring a flashlight along to produce a glaring source and see how they fare, once i've narrowed down a list a bit.

Make sure it's a dim light source. No TV could not reflect a torch.

Yes and that is why i have the list to help narrow down a choice. We cannot go larger. The TV would be out of proportion to the wall and what sits under it.


And again, this is not an option. We have 2 walls in this room aside from the window. The other wall has a fireplace and heat venting above it. Nothing can go in front of those vents and our seating only arranges in the one direction. People would have to crank their heads to watch a tv over the fireplace AND i would have to rearrange locations for the whole stereo setup which wouldn't work in this config. For one, i would have a speaker blocked by the end of a couch arm situation...
The only, and easier route is to get a tv that fits on the obvious blank wall opposite a picture window.

So, no glossy screens then?
That cuts down on options even further if that is the case.

And once again i also find myself asking the question, why are plasma tvs being marketed as best in low light conditions?
What is it about plasmas that this seems to be a constant recommendation?

I bought a plasma because it's capable of a more realistic reference quality picture than anything else out there. Also more consistent with less artifacts. The 2012 models of Panasonic, maybe only the more expensive models, I forget, are also brighter than past models, because of a new panel design. That's another reason I went with the VT50 model. But I rarely use the brightest modes. I prefer the darker and better color balance mode. The Sharp Elite came close to plasma quality this year, but the off axis picture degradation killed it for good quality.

Once I got used to a calibrated plasma picture, the LCD/LED Tv's just look cartoonish with their over bright colors.

Chess, you place great emphasis on avoiding a highly reflective screen(don't want to shave while watching TV, eh?). This article from CNET examines the issue and notes that the only plasma with a matte screen is the LG which is reviewed in the Sound&Vision test you link. It's only in 50" or larger if you still decide that's too big.

Otherwise, there're various Panasonic(as mentioned by Hellcommute)and Samsung models in the 40"-50" range tested and recommended in the December issue of Consumer Reports.

As to trying to angle it downward, sure, it's an angle of incidence/angle of reflection thing.

Glare reducing window film, diffusing film or accordian blinds may be options to look into. Accordian blinds can be pretty nice. You get new TV, wife gets new decor-- win win.

My living room setup has a wall mounted panny plasma opposite a picture window. We close over the blinds when we are watching TV and there isn't an issue with glare. Blinds open on a sunny day is a complete other story. I end up watching the tree in my front yard! Talking trees are strange. Unless it's treebeard.....

Chess, I have a 55" panny plasma in my great room. It has a non-glare screen. This particular room has a lot of windows. I love the plasma. Motion handling is excellent, as well as deep blacks / contrast. I do not believe any of the LCD's can match plasma with regards to contrast and inky blacks. I have an LED LCD in my work out room, and think it sucks in comparison to the plasma. Downside to plasmas is they are big and heavy and consume more energy.

I just bought a Panasonic plasma 65" 3D tv , what a difference from a projection. Its bloody awesome, so clear and zero reflections. Really happy with it!

What location are the windows relative to the tv?
The worst case you can have is a window directly opposite to the flat glossy glass of these damn things.

I very much prefer what plasma does for colours, blacks and off axis viewing for sure. I hate plasma for its significantly greater electricity consumption.
And of course, virtually all plasma tvs have a glossy screen whereas i have found a few LED with matte screens, but there seems to be quite the array of reviews in which none of these units produced a uniform picture, or had edge light bleed, or....
Would i notice those minor things compared to the sensitivity i have to the motion artifacts?
I can't say.

I am narrowing down some sense of a list, but i think we may have to just head into a Best Buy, pickup any old LED 40" around $1k and bring it home to test out just how bad these reflections might be and start with that knowing i can bring it back for an exchange or outright return fairly easily.

Maybe i'm making too much about the possibility of annoying reflections, but we have a LCD panel with a matte finish presently and on a sunny day the light through the non-opaque, translucent bauge cloth blinds is enough to wash out some of the screen.
I can just imagine what it would be like to try and watch the tv with a glossy shiny surface under these conditions.

Any windows?
Strong light sources?

The picture window is behind the TV and is a pretty dark room with the curtains closed. But the lights that reflected off the old TV aren't there anymore, so I'm glad about that.
Good luck with your decision.

I came across one possibility to try, matte panel, got decent review in bright rooms and as an overall unit, but because it is last years model, i cannot easily it in local stores (determined by checking their online website stock).
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-infinia-47lw5600/4505-6482_7-34468431.html

This year's version doesn't have a matte screen but got decent reviews overall and for bright rooms.
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-47lm7600/4505-6482_7-35117974.html
I might try picking one up and testing out the glare issues. It seems available at local box stores.

If the glare is not as much an issue as i think it may be, i might reconsider a plasma instead.

I've never heard of anyone being sorry that they bought a Panasonic plasma.

If you use a tilting/pivoting mount, it seems like you'd be able to mitigate the glare regardless of what screen you get.

And in part i'm hoping if i have to go that route that it could do the trick. A slight angle down, a slight angle left (not enough to make anyone tilt their heads to compensate...)

Monoprice. Not sure which one I got, but it was excellent quality and a good value.

Narrowed down the list to three and the last remaining item to check over is the glare in the room.
The list includes:
LG 47" LM7600 (LED)
Sony 46" HX850(LED)
Panasonic 50" ST50 (plasma)

Contemplating getting all three to do a comparison and returning the two we don't like.

Chess, I just received the Panny ST50 (like 15 minutes ago). I've got blinds on the right side of the room, I will let you know how glare is tomorrow during daylight.

There is a little bit of glare from a lamp next to the couch, but it is a dim reflection. Not really bothersome for TV watching. There is more glare from the glossy black bevel than the screen.

If you have bright lights directly behind the sitting area, it could be a bit of a problem.

Sean got a new TV!

50"?

Yup, 50".

Decided to treat myself to a new TV over Thanksgiving weekend. Darn internet shopping.

Was pretty unsure about the glare from the plasma screen, but in the end I thought if it was going to be bad during the day, I'd just figure a way to hang something over the blinds to mask any light coming through. Definitely wanted the rich colors and deep blacks of a plasma.

I look forward to hearing more about the potential or realized glare and reflections as you start to get used to it over the next few days.
I won't be going to check out the Panny at a local store until later this weekend or early next week. I did pickup the LG though and will set it up tomorrow (saw the Sony right next to it as well and because of its higher price and much more glossy screen, we decided to rule it out as an option). Once again in the store i tested out the off axis performance (of the LG) and there is significant loss of contrast to the sides. Not unexpected but more than i expected.
We'll see if that holds up tomorrow once i get it plugged in and calibrated a bit.

Anyone using a more current dvd for LED/plasma calibration?

I'm sure glad I got blackout curtains. Mine are white on the outside and dark brown on the inside. From JC.Penny. Mounted on outer of 2 rods. The inner rod has curtains that are more sheer. This way I can control how much light I want in the room. Total blackout, to light through sheers, to no curtain for max light.

Your evil hat rack allowed a new TV in the living room?

Yes, but it did attack the delivery man.

I see the coat rack peeing on the wall to mark it's territory.

Chess, I also thought the Sony 850 series with the Gorilla Glass is too reflective. Took it off my short list too but still have the LG7600 on it. Congrats and looking forward to your review.

I just got the Disney World of Wonder Blu-ray for adjusting the settings on my plasma and it worked great. More current than my old DVE dvd. Ordered it from Amazon-someone in the deals thread mentioned it.

So... final decision.
We went with the LG (the cnet review is below).
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-47lm7600/4505-6482_7-35117974.html

Got a pic to post re: the whole reflection issue and it seems that we will have to try and do something about the present blinds in that room. They won't work well on a bright day.

The LG still doesn't satisfy my bar of expectations 100% though so i'm going to bide my time until i see what OLED units are produced in a few years. That being said, any OLED tv made with a reflective glossy surface will still retain that same annoying issue as all the rest of them...more matte screen options people, more matte screens!

I will believe OLED will actually exist in large screens when I see it. OLED's one of those things that has been "coming in the next 5 years" for a very, very long time.

Congrats on the new TV in any case.

Although i agree, it has actually made headway becoming mainstream in many samsung smart phone screens and with a company of that size already making tvs as well, you know it is coming.
Other evidence, stores already advertising soon to be arrivals.
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category/oled-tvs/32080.aspx

It will be expensive to start, same as plasma and lcd, but starting at a samsung smartphone screen is gorgeous compared to any other screens i've seen.

Nice. Congratz.

Congrats on your new glowing rectangle! It is a very nice looking TV.

Nice TV, but I hope that picture of the mountains goes away after a while.

Congrats. I've been impressed with LG's offerings as of late.

Grats on the new TV Chess.
I recently bought a used LG Plasma from a gentleman at my wife's work who was liquidating items for a big move. I didn't have time to research it but the price was right and so far I am much more than pleased. I can't find a thing to complain about it.

So, since this was such a decision breaker, i thought i would post the before and after side by side comparison of glare.
Considering the amazing glare off the LG, i'm just thinking would it matter then if it were any more glossy at this point such that the plasma Panny is still in the running?