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#389926 - 02/20/13 11:37 PM XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci
gjtphx Offline

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Last year I moved to Denon AVR 3312ci from an old Denon AVR 2807. My dedicated media room is 22x20x10 in size. My 7.1 setup consists of 2 Axiom M60's (FL and FR), Axiom VP150 as centre channel, 4 Axiom QS8's as surrounds and one Axiom EP350 as Sub.

When I moved from Denon 2807 to 3312, I was expecting a significant improvement in the sound dynamics, but I only feel a marginal improvement.

My question is whether adding an Emotiva XPA-5 as a power amp for the first 5 speakers into my setup will improve the sound quality? Does anyone has a similar setup and seen significant improvement when they moved to XPA-5? Please advice.

#389927 - 02/21/13 12:19 AM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
George, welcome. If the maximum output capability of an amplifier can meet the safe(to your hearing)sound levels of the speakers being used, there's no good reason to expect any audible difference with one having an even greater maximum output available(e.g.,the few watts difference between the 2807 and 3312 are likely meaningless). Unused headroom is simply that: unused.

Particularly with the amplifier in the EP350 carrying the load of the lowest bass frequencies, your 3312 should have more than enough capacity to do the job.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#389960 - 02/21/13 08:31 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
Cohesion Offline

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 286
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
While John doesn't believe separate amps are any better than receivers some on here -- including me -- believe they do. I haven't personally heard any Emotiva gear but it seems to be generally well thought of and a few Axiomites use it. You might consider giving it a try under their 30 evaluation policy. That way if it really doesn't sound better you could return it.

#389962 - 02/21/13 08:46 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: Cohesion]
SBrown Offline

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 901
Loc: Victoria,BC
Yes amps do make a difference, how much you want to spend and how far you want to go is another story.

I think Axiom has figured this out now with the ADAs and its the way to go. I just have to start putting more money aside....

#389963 - 02/21/13 08:57 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
dakkon Offline

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1863
My room is 17X18X18, and i had to get larger amps.. I would also recommend getting a larger center channel, either the 160, or 180.. I went from a 135w per channel amp, to 500W per channel amps. The reason for buying more power was that i was driving the 135W amp into the clipping region. You have a lot of air space to fill, depending on what volume you listen to movies, you will benefit from more power.

However, with that being said i agree with John, that it won't "sound" better.. You will just be able to drive the speakers father without driving your amp into the clipping region.

Right now i have 3 amps. two 2 channel amps, and a 3 channel amp... i have 7 channels of amplification because i have a pair of LFR's which use 2 channels of amplification each.

#389967 - 02/21/13 10:13 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10420
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
You kind of went for a straight across move going from the 2807 to the 3312 as the 33XX series replaced the 28XX series.

To potentially see/hear a difference you would have to move up to the 4XXX series. I will bet you will notice a difference by adding an external amp to your system, whether or not this difference is worth the cost outlay is up to you and your ears.
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70

#389968 - 02/21/13 10:18 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
Boltron Offline

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 172
Loc: Toronto
I ran a Denon 4311ci in a 7.2 setup with my M80s(set as small), VP150, QS4/8s. It all worked fine of course but at higher levels with some action movies (Super 8 train crash for example) I really felt that the receiver was running out of oomph. I subsequently got a 3 ch ADA1000 for the M80s and VP150 and there is a noticeable difference when the mood takes me to crank it up a bit. As an added bonus I could run my M80s in full range (large) and to my ears the overall sound is better. I love the M80s and I want them at their fullest, I couldn't run them as large with the Denon.

IMO, an external amp is a must in my 22 x 16 room. I am considering upgrading to an ADA1200 actually.

Edited by Boltron (02/21/13 10:20 PM)
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert.

#389970 - 02/21/13 10:31 PM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13658
Loc: Iowa
George, amps don't make things sound better, they amplify what is fed to them, which is why there was little difference between your 2 Denons. No different than my 2805 versus 3808ci. They both have decent amp sections.

As Dakkon mentioned, more power will get you a little bit further without straining or clipping, that is if you even use that extra power.

Understand by doubling your power (for ex. 100 to 200 watts) only achieves and increase of 3dB. There are some other variables like room size, placement, etc. that can affect the outcome, but this mathematical equation is good to understand.

There is a lot of topics that could take this into different directions (for ex, capacitance amount, damping, etc) which can vary from amp to amp, but for normal listening at moderate levels you most likely won't hear a difference.

With that said, I like Outlaw amps much more than Emotiva, long story. smile
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800

#389976 - 02/22/13 12:08 AM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
CatBrat Offline

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
There is a difference between MCACC and Audyssey. I get more bass with less shrillness in the upper range with Pioneer's MCACC.

#389978 - 02/22/13 12:35 AM Re: XPA-5 with Axiom Speakers and Denon 3312ci [Re: gjtphx]
mpyw Offline

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 288
Loc: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

I have a pair of M60 and VP150 and driving them with XPA-3 through an Onkyo NR808.

Trust me, the extra power from the XPA will make the M60 sings.

My room size is 22x18x10.

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