Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater And it starts...(new receiver: marantz sr5007)

I started a lot of thread making a few months ago about uograding all my equipment and movimg into the 21st century of high fidelity home theatre. The original plan: buy a complete m80 theatre system minus subwoofer, buy a svs pb13-ultra, buy either the marantz sr5007 or the pioneer sc-61 to be paired with my rotel rmb-1095(with plans to replace with am emotiva xpr5.

well after many other expenditures, I will have to build in pieces. First piece...my new marantz sr5007! im new to almost every "feature" it has. After hooking it up the other day and running audyssey half assed, im already blown away. I put on skyfall blu ray through my ps3 and played through my existing 5.0 setup(no subwoofer ). It sounds like I have new speakers. The difference is amazing. Sounds much more detailed, precise and smooth. I grew accustomed to tailoring my sound before through an equalizer, which has now been removed, and the "oomph" I was used to having with my d8 cerwim vegas, which I ver much liked, isnt there unfortunately. But when the bass does hit, its much better...if that makes sense lol

This weekend I will be ordering 2 m80's eventually the centre and a subwoofer will come next.

i'm so looking forward to placing my order this weekend

Very good, Nick; enjoy.

I'm still very unsure, even after scouring the owner's manual, about the different audio modes? I can set it to one of 3 different categories (music, movie or game) and under each category are the followinh options: stereo, dolby pro logic II, neo surround sound(or something to that effect, cant quite remember), multi channel stereo or auto. Then there is a 4th category called direct(and if you push and hold it goes to super direct mode).

does this make sense to anyone? If its set to auto, how do I know if its running the optimal format? I should note that im using a ps3. How do I take advantage of dts on some of my blu rays? What about this PCM I read about?

Forgive me if this sounds stupid...im totally out of my element here.

It doesn't sound stupid; it sounds like typical Denon/Marantz manual indiscernibility. Modern HT receivers and their manuals are all relatively complex, and the D&M manuals are particularly difficult. I'd suggest that mastering it is just slightly less difficult than mastering the Semi-Slav.

I looked at the 5007 manual. You probably are mainly concerned with the "Selecting a listening mode" section beginning at page 71. Playing a CD on your PS3, you'd press Music and select one of the listed modes. Straight 2-channel Stereo would be the default with Auto, but I never use Stereo. I always use DPLII(preferred slightly over the similar Neo:6)to extract surround ambience imprisoned in the front channels and send it to the surrounds where it belongs. The 5007 then "remembers" the mode you used last for that type of material and uses it unless you select a different one.

Playing a Blu-ray or other video disc, you'd press Movie and select the mode from those listed. For a Blu-ray you'd select multi-channel PCM(if the player had decoded the DTS to the basic digital PCM), or DTS-Master if the receiver is going to decode to PCM the original DTS as output by the player.

I never use any type of "Direct", since it allows no processing, and I want all the processing that is helpful.

Multi-channel stereo simply duplicates the front speakers in the surrounds and isn't as realistic as a mode such as DPLII which sends ambient material to them.

Thank you. A lot of that was very helpful.

You mentioned selecting on the amp, when playing a blu ray on the ps3, dts master or pcm. No such options are available under "movie". Only stereo, dolby pro logic II, neo:6, extended stereo or direct.

Am I missing something here?

Btw, loved the difficulty reference to the semi-slav lol

Just took another quick look at the manual. I wonder if somehow we're not "on the same page"(literally)since there doesn't appear to be a mention of an "extended stereo" mode. Unfortunately, since I don't have a 5007 or similar Denon/Marantz unit and am simply relying on a reading(misreading?)of the manual, I can't experiment to come up with the modes listed there. If someone with a similar unit would point out the specific procedure they follow it'd be helpful.

As it stands, it appears to state at pp.71 et seq that if multichannel signals are being input, repeated pushes of Movie change the modes.

On my Denon, IIRC, you would select from the menu the input for the BR player and from there change the input sources for this "input" as required. You can then select auto decode under the audio setting for this input, from this the Denon defaults to what ever signal the BR player is sending to the avr whether it be DTS-HD, DOLBY True HD, Multi channel in(PCM) or what ever it is receiving from the player.

The 5007 sounds similar, you select the input you are using then decide what the avr should do to decode the audio signal. You can also go in and change these settings manually from other areas in the GUI, it can take some time playing around and remembering what setting does what with these somewhat complex avr's.

So for music listening you would select the "Music" input from the menu and inside this section you should be able to select what the avr should do with the audio portion for the signal and then further refinements can be made under the "manual" settings(not under the MUSIC input but a separate section in the GUI) where you should be able make the Dolby PLIIX settings for 2 channel inputs etc.

It really is hard to guide you with all the intricacies of the settings, have you looked at the owners thread on AVS? There is usually some good info on those threads.

Thanks to both of you. Great advice from both. Yep jake, found an owners thread on avs.

I had to push and hold the power button on my ps3 to "reset" it's configurations since it was sending stereo through hdmi into the tv before getting this Marantz.

The advice on avs was to set the ps3 to bitstream. I can do this once any blu ray has been put in through the ps3 pop up menu while the movie is playing. it gives me a warning when I do that "some audio may not be present when choosing this option". After I did that john, the proper corresponding options should up in my "movie" audio menu. For the dark knight it was dolby true master hd(among other choices like "multi channel in") and on fight club it gave the option DTS. it defaulted to these automatically though and like you said, it remembers what I've choosen.

I was sure wowed after watching the transport scene on the dark knight, even with only my 5.0 setup, it was pretty impressive. I'm in awe...and I always love this fleeting feeling when it comes to stereo lol

Though, I'm sure noticing things I didn't hear and some of them are good and some of them are bad. The bad things I'm hearing are the limitations of my cheap, mismatched, old speakers I think. At especially loud moments in the transport scene I was detecting some raspiness/distortion that sounded nasty to me. I think it's mainly coming from my center and rears. the weakest link in my setup.

My order for my m80s literally was just processed. Can't wait

I don't know how the Marantz user interface works but my Denon's is totally user hostile. It can drive you nuts. What happens is the menu items on the various pages change depending on the source input being played or was last played. So for example, if the last movie I played had DTSMA audio I would see specific settings. If I next play 2 channel music, all the menu settings totally change.

I can't tell you how many times I navigated every single page of every single setting looking for something I could swear I saw yesterday and not be able to find. It's infuriating. I am in the software business and I can tell you the design of the UI sucks big time.

Ultimately what I need to do whenever I want to make a change is playback a movie of every audio type and music type (2/5.1 ch) and adjust the settings for every source in order to make the changes stick. The only saving grace for the design is the Quick Select feature which will saves/recalls most settings, I have one setup for movie playback and another for music.

thanks for all that great advice. It's definitely a different kind of interface. Especially for someone who hasn't used a new receiver like this.

All of it's so new to me.

And on that note: I'm noticing some issues.

I've figured out all my previous problems, but now a new one.

My rears and center channel speakers are mix matched bookshelf speakers. They have always sounded great. The sound dynamics for the rears are particularly nice, or so I thought.

I've always enjoyed the crisp, detailed sound they provide. They can play loud too and still sound good.

But hooked up to this amp, when I play a loud action scene on a blu ray, and only during a loud output scene, the center and rear speakers have noticeable distortion...it's so noticeable and it's going to cause me to tear my hair out. I'm sooooo disappointed with that.

My last receiver was a Yamaha that is something like 12-15 years old.

The surround sound effects and quality of sound, the separation of the channels and the soundstage in the front, it's all EXTREMELY noticeably better.

So if there is this much difference in sound quality, is it possible the Marantz is showing me just how crappy my mixed matched old system is? Is that possibly why the center and surrounds in my 5.0 system are distorting? Why wouldn't I have heard it when my old Yamaha was hooked up?

My setup seems sound. I've went over it again and again and even hooked up the old amp to double check. No problem with the old amp, but again, the sound sounds almost stone age compared to my new Marantz.

If the center and surrounds are obviously distorting on program material where this didn't previously occur, the first thought is that they're being played substantially louder. This raises the question as to whether they're correctly calibrated to match their volume with the mains.

You're no fun John. I was going to help him spend his money on new speakers.

Tried that. Lowered the level for the center and rears quite substantially, still, same gross distortion. Can't reproduce it on my other amp. I'm going to try running audyssey again I guess.

All I can guess is that this amp is capable of showing me the crap I have in my system.

The plan is to follow up with some axiom qs8's and a vp180, when I can afford it.

I hope that fixes the problem. If not, then it's most likely a problem with the amp itself.

This distortion I'm talking about it is quite noticeable and nasty

Okay, so my "first thought" about playing them too loud isn't it, and there's "gross distortion" even when they're reduced to a lower level. Another thought is to switch your main speakers(no problem now?)to the surround channels to see if the distortion now appears in them. If so, although it seems highly unlikely, it would appear that the surround(and center)channels are defective while the main channels are okay. The 5007 should be replaced. You can dismiss the thought that the new 5007 amplifier is "more revealing" of equipment problems.

Ok thanks. When I get home, I will be switching the speakers around. I havent haf much time to really play with it lately. I tried watching the dark knight rises last night on blu ray and came close to turning it off. So many scenes sounded horrendus on the center and rears. If I switch to stereo, no problem.

I also briefly noticed that on "extended stereo" it doesn't do it, but im going to have to re confirm this. Seems only when using one of the surround modes.

Also noticed that when I set the ps3 to bitstream, it sounds worse then if I keep the ps3 on linear pcm.

Ill toy around with it more this evening and try your suggestions and report back. Thanks for the help.

Are you using pre outs?
There's a slim chance something is wired incorrectly internally and they are out of phase.
My second guess would be that they are already blown.

Yes, using pre outs. Using the same power amp that I was using with the yammy(rotel rmb 1095). Im ocd with wiring, re checking dozens of times along the way, plus, i've double checked tge wiring the other day. And setup was a breeze since all I had to do was take the pre outs from the old yammy and feed them to the new marantz.

If u mean internally, do u mean something wrong with the marantz possibly?

Wouldn't I notice the blown speakers when hooked up to the old yamaha? Ive switched amps already but will try again. Im going to get to the bottom of this tonight. I've never had a problem with setup before, its driving me mad.

Its possible. I installed an amp using the same reciever and all 4 channels were out of phase. YPAO confirmed over and over. It didn't sound right. I knew it wasn't the(my) wiring so I swapped pos/neg at two of four speakers and walla.YPAO confirmed. Changed the other two and it sounds right.
Its internal in the reciever or the amp. Not sure which. Never will know.

interesting. I just got home a couple hours ago from work and I'm still playing with it to make sure I've covered all my bases.

I haven't switched speakers around yet.

But a few things I've noticed...

1. I've only been able to recreate the bad distorting sound on the rear and center channels with some blu ray material(the dark knight, the dark knight rises and james bond: skyfall). Only when I try to turn it up very loud and only on loud action scenes.

2. I can't recreate the sound on downloaded material on my ps3. I have a bunch of hi def downloads(upwards of 10gb a file or more) and non hi def alike. I tested a bunch of movies (ratoutille, avatar, Prometheus, war of the worlds) and on all my only "options" the Marantz gives is "stereo, multi channel in, extended stereo, virtual, direct". The multi channel in sounds really good. Sounds like good, clean proper surround sound to me(then again, I'm new to this). Anyway, I cranked it on some of the louder scenes and can't recreate the sound.

So, on that note, so far it's only when I play a blu ray source. My most high quality source sounds the worst lol go figure.

Even more puzzling. If the problem is decoding the DD or DTS from the Blu-rays in the 5007, set the PS3 to decode them and output PCM rather than the original bitstream(the listening mode would then be multi-channel in, rather than DD or DTS). You said above that it was "worse" on bitstream from the PS3, but is it any problem at all with PCM output?

Sound advice. I will experiment with a few other blu rays and report back.

My axiom m80's will be arriving in the next week or two and will be replacing my cerwin vega d8's.

Hopefully I can iron this all out

well, not happy with the Marantz. It's not just this problem I'm encountering. I like to tweak things and have lots of options. The Marantz was the wrong choice for me.

I'm going to exchange it for a good deal on a pioneer sc61. I bought the Marantz for 700. I'll be returning it and paying a 250 difference to walk out with the pioneer sc-61.

I think this amplifier will suit my tastes better

I'll be interested to see how you like it. I have the Pio SC-67 and I'm loving it.

well, I went and got it and hooked it up a couple of hours ago.

I already love it. I very much prefer it already over the Marantz. I went through all the Marantz's menus and features and it felt shallow and left something to be desired, for a "tweaker" like me. I can tell I'll be reading manuals and playing around with all the different goodies in this one for awhile.

I just couldn't get the Marantz to sound the way I wanted to with music, which is my primary listening. it didn't have the "oomph" that I enjoyed with the old Yamaha. This Pioneer does that but much better quality. When running in pure direct mode compared to the Marantz, it's night and day better for me.

I also replaced a crappy hdmi cable that I had running from the ps3 to the receiver...I figured that might have been part of my earlier problems. it was a cheapy that didn't seat well at all and had to wiggle it the first time I started up the Marantz to get picture to come through.

I replayed the scenes that caused horrible distortion and nothing now. So I'm happy. When the kids go to bed I'm going to run the MCACC and really play with it

And my m80's should be here next week.