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#396171 - 08/17/13 03:53 PM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
Gr8_White_North Online   content

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2231
Loc: Whitehorse YT
HI rob. Im not sure if you aware of how to determine the first reflection point. I have not done it myself though I have seen it mentioned. It is done with a mirror and preferably a helper. Wall treatments need to be made from material that is specifically designed to absorb certain frequencies. Besides absorption you need diffraction from such things as bookstands ,plant stand etc. If you had a receiver with room correction software you could possibly forgo the room treatments.

DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

#396185 - 08/17/13 11:41 PM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Rob, welcome. The first point is that the 7' separation is about the least that should be used with a 10' listening distance. The typical suggestion is that the speakers should be separated about the same amount as the listening distance, so the separation should be increased by at least 3'.

Secondly, since reflections or refractions from the TV appear to be at least part of the problem, the speaker drivers should be at least a few inches forward of the TV surface, to lessen those effects.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#396186 - 08/17/13 11:51 PM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
robrob Offline

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 9
Thanks John, I'll try widening the speaker separation but the Axiom stereo setup guide say to place them less than the listening distance:

"You want to avoid the sense that you are getting sound from two boxes at the front of the room. That may happen when the two main speakers are too far apart. I don't like excessive physical separation: if you sit 12 feet back from your speakers, try separating the two main speakers about 6 to 8 feet. With direct-radiating speakers like the M60s, I usually angle them in very slightly towards the listening area (you may have seen this referred to on our message boards as 'toe-in'). You can tell when it's right because a vocalist will seem to appear, phantom-like, locked dead center between the two speakers. If you separate front speakers by more than 10 feet, it's often difficult to achieve an unbroken front soundstage."

I have tried placing the speakers about 6 inches forward of the TV screen.

Vocals are so hollow yet harsh. I'm going to try the M60s in another room temporarily to see what they sound like.

#396188 - 08/18/13 01:22 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
brwsaw Offline

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1781
Loc: Canada
Have you tried spacing them 8' apart? How about 9'?

Edited by brwsaw (08/18/13 01:22 AM)
Thinking about co-locating my 4 powered Paradigm subs between my LRR and my LR.
A tower of power.

#396193 - 08/18/13 06:47 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
J. B. Offline

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
movies should be listened to with the L/R speakers just flanking the side of the tv; and something like an equilateral triangle for music. just like JohnK says.
i chose the music setting (wide separation) because overall
the results are better.
try both for a while.
or: Axiom Gallery

#396196 - 08/18/13 08:58 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
not sure you answered my question, what mode are you using: direct, stereo, PLiix, etc? My m80's are seperated about 9-10ft in the theater room, front row is about 8-9 ft back, and 2nd row is more like 13-14ft, and there are no issues. The m60's should be as forgiving as the 80's.

my guess it is a room issue, what is your floor and walls like? if you have hard surfact floor, try throwing a carpet piece or something between you and the speakers.
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB

#396198 - 08/18/13 09:10 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
Adrian Offline

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6880
Loc: It's all about the location.
It sounds like a room issue to me as well, since both sets of speakers seem to having the same issue or at least some issue besides the speakers. As Randy pointed out, what kind of flooring do you have? carpeted or some kind of solid surface, hardwood/laminate etc.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

#396199 - 08/18/13 09:34 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
Randy, he's using a tube amp.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

#396203 - 08/18/13 09:59 AM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11437
Loc: Central NH
Welcome. I'm coming in late...

Did you verify that all drivers are working (not likely if your Polks sounded similar)?

Is it _possible_ that you're otherwise used to a "California-sound" that's bass and treble heavy? I know that this is not likely in that you probably have had the Polks for awhile, but every once in awhile someone drops by with new Axioms and posts that they feel disappointed in the sound and we later find out that they've been listening to _really_ inaccurate speakers for the last ten years!
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

#396217 - 08/18/13 03:51 PM Re: Speaker Placement Problem [Re: robrob]
robrob Offline

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 9
I'll try separating the speakers out farther. I haven't done it yet because of obstructions but with some work I can spread them out.

As I said in the first post the floor is carpeted and has a pretty thick pad beneath it. The walls are drywall. The room is about 17 feet wide and 30 feet deep. Ceiling is at two levels, about 9 feet over the speakers (drop ceiling) and about 7.5 feet over the listening area (drywall).

I do believe it is a room issue because both sets of speakers with two amps have the same nasty hollow vocals and mid freq spike.

I have a set of Cambridge Soundworks bookshelf speakers in the family room + subwoofer that sound great--very clean and transparent. I may try the M60s in that room just to see how they sound.

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