Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom bashing

Ok first off I bought a pair of m80's on a whim because I needed to get "smaller speakers" my wifes words, I like to read reviews etc... check out forums and I have very seldom found a bad review of axiom speakers so I pulled the trigger. I am very very very happy with my purchase but some other forums seem to bash axiom to the point that they are comparing them to bose low end speakers lol. I have found that in 90 percent of the cases the person bashing has not tested the speakers for more than a few tracks at "some store" most likely hooked into "their crossovers" in the wall and listened to some very dirty tracks and then listend to x brand through another good crossover with a clean track and made up their mind that axiom sucks or wants to say that the layout is outrageous etc... without testing the actual speaker in their home. I let people make up their own minds and let them listen to my system very very loud because that is the way I listen to music and most can't believe that sound comes from the m80's.

I just wanted to say that I have caught many many many stores using bad crossovers to make their brand of speakers sound best as well as placing their brand speakers in the best places for the room etc... I always insist on setting up my speakers, amps etc and bring my own tracks in to really test their best equipment and if they take offense I leave the store.

Axiom has been a target from time to time but the best thing to do is not engage the basher. Axiom has a 30 day return guarantee, so anyone can try them. I started with M2's in case I didn't like what I heard to save on shipping, I still have them and M80's QS4's etc. Some people like to live like sheep, I tend to be more of a wolf and go where I choose and do as I choose. Most people can recognize a basher and will disregard their rants. Glad to hear you are happy with your purchase, spread the word.

Richard

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you said, however, I am curious as to your comment about a "basher" testing Axioms in "some store" hooked in to their crossovers, interesting since, as we all know, Axiom sells strictly on-line and hasn't sold their products in retailers for well over a decade.

Hear some tracks and then listen to x product through another excellent cross-over with a fresh monitor and created up their thoughts that adage absorbs or wants to say that the structure is unbelievable etc...

I kept getting hung up on how the M80s were "smaller speakers" until I looked at your first post from 2012 about having some beasts with 12" woofers.

Anyway, this topic comes up from time to time and to quickly summarize:

1) People have different tastes and likes. Some perceive product X is better than product Y based off of real information, side by side (or blind) tests, and so forth, and others just base their decision off of marketing or even price... I mean pay more and it is better, right? (Like this guy I work with who has a fully loaded, $60,000 Lincoln that is in the shop ALL OF THE TIME. It is a nice ride, but his wife's Kia Optima for $34,000 just works great and has pretty much the same bells and whistles. At almost half the cost, the Kia seems like a better buy. It is a tad smaller, but gets-up-and-goes about as well.) A lot of people pay for a certain brand or model of something because it is some sort of status symbol, but in the end it might be a big lemon. They will never admit to it, and to make themselves feel better, they spend their days trolling on the internet to bash other products that they have never heard, just to make themselves feel better about their mediocre but pricey purchase.

2) Some people have bad blood with a company. No need to name names, but a lot of people here know who these people are. Of course, when that bad blood happens to be a guy who runs a fairly popular A/V web site, he spews his unjustified bias all over the place, and people think that because someone owns a web site means that they must be an expert, or knowledgeable, or heck, even honest. We have seen some bad blood with another guy who did actually own some Axiom products and it seems like his life revolves around just slamming Axiom at every twist and turn. It started with subwoofers where he compared internal bracing to someone else and since the Axiom had less, it was total crap in his mind. Completely black and white world for this guy. It seems like he only torn into Axiom products to "expose" them, but never took a long hard look at a number of competitors. Just one or two where he could make his point.

So yes, people are entitled to their opinions, and I am not saying that Axioms are the pinnacle of audio, but they are damn good, and not just "for the money," and I have learned that the biggest leap forward in performance with a "damn good" speaker is not to go to a different brand, but is to focus on the space in which that speaker is listened too. This has become huge for me lately. I have owned my Axioms for what will be 10 years this year. They sound SO much better in a treated space that I am in now than they did in my 2 previous home theaters that used the exact same speakers (minus the 2nd pair of QS8s). The room was as big of a performance boost (literally) as when I bought my Axioms and replaced my crappy, poorly made KLH speakers.

Hopefully that "summary" helps.

I kinda hoped that this wasn't brought up again as it has been relatively quiet lately.

For the past couple of years, I have reluctantly taken on the handful of bashers to provide a counter point to their ongoing questionable behavior on the net. Rest assured I get no pleasure in it.

If someone doesn't take them on, then only their point of view & opinions get published all over the net. Then, guess what comes up when someone 'searches' speakers, Axiom or whatever? At least now they get counter views as well - which is only fair.

Ongoing brand bashing just irks me. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, after a certain point, continuing the same behavior becomes akin to slander.

I just wish that it would end...

TAM

Agreed. I've been in that same boat TAM for a few years. After that last round of bashing that I was involved in about 6 months ago and am just taking a break from the fight.

I'm old & lucky to be able to have a home theater system along with a separate 2 channel system. My 2 channel system now has a pair of speakers that cost close to $20,000. Are they worth it you bet. I bought them because I like the way they sound. I bet there are a lot of people that will criticized my 2 channel purchase but who cares.

My home theater now has the Axiom HP M80. I traded my M80V3 for the HP model. The Axiom's replaced Paradigm Model 9. The Axiom's blew the Paradigm's away. The HP 80's are fabulous. Axiom improved on any weakness that the M80 might of had. I could be bragging about my 2 channel system but why? It's all about the sound and Axiom delivers. My only regret is I might have spent to much on my 2 channel speaker system when I could have preferred the Bryston Model T built by Axiom. People need to get over themselves and just enjoy the music.

Amen....

TAM

I was just thinking on how pleasant it is to hang out here...

TAM

I own now a pair of M3 as my main 2 channel system. I have own many good speakers which has cost more than 10times the M3 and I must say these little speaker give me excitation I haven’t heard since a long time and they haven’t yet finish to impress me…
Trust your ears, not forum members!

I too have a set of M3s that reproduce music in a surprisingly big way from a smallish box. At about $300 for a real wood veneer B Stock set, they were definitely a steal.

They really don't need subs (for most music) & in fact I had to tone down their bass response (room reinforcement) by plugging their ports...

TAM

For the first time in several years (kinda odd since we used to have this happen at least once a year with 'new' Axiom buyers), we had people over at our house and i did an audio demo.
They weren't at our house to buy, just party, but i thought some of these lads would love to hear the system sing.

Long story short, i had comments like "it sounds so clear" and "that is the best sound i've ever heard".
Now to be fair, these comments could have come from me owning any number of speaker brands of quality, but the fact remains that Axiom makes a great speaker for its price (yes even the non-LFR and massive driver versions).

Most people are not exposed to a well made speaker overall and when they hear one, they know it!

(For those who may ask, the demo included Best of Seal, one acoustic track, DVD audio disc, and U571 the depth charged scene. These have long been staples in demonstrating a few qualities of good audio for past demo sessions.)

I use U571 to fine tune my subs.
Seems once it sounds good here everything else (except 2 channel) sounds right.
And I love the movie.

I always persist on establishing up my sound system, amplifiers etc and carry my own paths in to really analyze their best devices and if they take violation I keep the shop.

I bought the speakers used and brought them to Professional audio in Sudbury Ontario. I wanted to upgrade my power amp to be able to push them. The clerk hooked up my speakers to the amp I wanted to test but through a set of binding posts on the wall. I thought nothing of it and as he played my test cd. I was shocked as the speakers sounded very very bad and almost as if a tweeter was blown or something worse. The clerk told me my speakers were blown and I should have bought from him etc.. I was pissed off and called the guy I bought them from and complained. He told me to go home and try them on my own amp first so I did. I noticed they were fine and blew all the paradigm stuff away that that guy wanted to sell me out of the water. I caught this store doing some shady stuff with in wall crossovers and wanted to post here. I have also come across some very bad blood on other forums about axiom and found out in almost all cases the person was just attacking the design of said speaker and did not test the speaker in real world conditions or they had some "deal" with a sponsor to diss axiom speakers. I just want people to be aware of what is going on.

I always felt that if I really wanted to get treated like shit, I just visit a so called highend audio store. I had a similar experience at a brick one time , the sales woman was trying to show me how good hdmi was ( like I don't already know ) and after she left I looked behind the tv and she was comparing hdmi to composite not component like she implied. Anything to make a sale.

I found that on that other forum, considering an Axiom speaker was like committing heresy. You either spent the big money at a dealer, or you tried your luck buying someone else's 20 year old speakers because they didn't like them any more.

How can you like Axiom, they are so bad... except they have been in business for 30 years and get good reviews, but all that is irrelevant as they don't conform to the defined norm that a dealer must get more of your cash for a speaker to sound good.

I am so glad that Axiom has their own forum where us with free will to choose can go.

I didn't want to start stuff to put it mildly but make people aware that not only are their bad or biased reviews out there but that at least one store tried to screw me. I was smart enough to test the speakers on my own and come up with a real world conclusion. This changed my thinking a lot, I used to take other peoples opinion of a lot of products in store and on forums but now I know better. I think people really need to do their own testing. The guy at that store had no idea I would spend 3000 dollars on an amp plus wiring etc... he just thought he found another sucker.

It is important to note in recent years A/V retailers are paying a considerable price for this kind of mentality. In my area alone, just in the past few years three out of the six mid-high end retailers have gone out of business and the other three have gone to reduced hours OR by an "appointment only" deal. Whether they want to admit it or not, the online companies are killing them and rightly so. For the most part, their sales staff stinks and are generally very poorly trained and that has never really changed resulting in their gradual demise.

One rule of thumb I have always had with any retailer is if the sales person start criticizing stuff they don't sell you just turn around and leave.

I know what I hear is real, but every other thing can be replicated. I always thought if you bring in your own cd and listen to your trusted tracks you will fine you trust what you hear. If you like what you really hear buy it, even if it is not axiom , why because axiom will respond with something better. I also think that some speakers sound good for rock music, some sound good for others etc..., some people like Country and western etc or heavy metal but if you played the tracks you love to listen to that YOU would be the deciding factor and YOU would be ahead of the curve. . I don't trust the high end stores after my horrible experience. I would say it boils down to what YOU think and what YOU want from a system. I have had 1 amp - 6 amps etc.. it depends on what you want from a system and what YOU need. I have only a pair of m80's but I couldn't blow them up in 1 year, that is saying a lot, I have blown up a lot of speakers over the years and the axiom is MY #1 choice. I pushed them way past their limit and they still sound good. I don't care about other forums you can visit me in Sudbury Ontario at 879 Howey drive to listen to the m80's , why did I post my address because I BELIEVE in the Speakers. I plan on buying the biggest Center channel Axiom makes, I plan on buying the big subs to push the system, why? If anyone including axiom wants to record a real time video of the real performance of Axiom speakers I am game, but it has to be from a quality amp with good recording equipment and microphones (ribbon mics etc.. ) If Axiom wanted to push the ADA-1500 Amplifier to the max I would let them and I think the spaekers would survive being pushed to the tilt. The amp that I have that is still alive is pushing 220watts a side and it barely gets things moving...

how abot this If you own M80's or M60's try this at max volume without distortion.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FiCT7q38SE

how about this, If you own M80's or M60's try this, turn down volume to 3-4 to start then without distortion crank it up slowly but very slowly. It will push your speakers so don't try it if you don't care to push them speakers to the max....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FiCT7q38SE. OOOOH Axiom M80'rock hmmmm come and take a listen at 879 Howey Drive Sudbury Ontario b3b-1h3. I am running a Pioneer top end amp which has not blown up yet, I have been running it for some time but wish to aquire a 1500ada to really push it hard plus the rest of the axiom gear ( send it to me big center big subs etc....) . I think they will at least give me the right amplifier 1500 ada to sacrifice my speakers to: so come on Axiom respond to the world..... Send me your best stuff, I will push it way past its limits and I will show anyone that comes near Sudbury Ontario what your made of. I am pushing 220 watts a side RMs if I had the ada 1500 pushing (650 watts per side ) I would show the world what were made of.... If you want me to push my speakers to the max or blow them up, I will push them way beyond the ratings ... bottom line I will kill my Axioms but ..... you guys gotta pressure Axiom to send me that 650 w per sode amp and big subs etc...... I will push them to the braking point but I need you to tell them David Brennan Is their biggest fan and he will show how many watts will kill those speakers. I would never compare the speakers to 20000 dollar speakers but I will say give me an amp (clean .002distortion) that will blow them....... I will blow them but I need an amp and not a shitty amp a good .002 distorio type.... send me one I will blow them up .

Up next for Axiom speakers, an appearance on "Will It Blend."

Or dont! Lol. Easy way to bottom out a driver then kaput.

Hi David,

Speaker endurance and what happens beyond the max power rating are things that are not discussed enough in my view. We have invested a lot over the years in improving our driver designs to withstand enormous amounts of power. We have an endurance test here that all our products have to go through and pass. It is heavy metal music played at 1.5 times the max rated power for 100 hours continuously. We have done this test at double the rated power on the M80s and M100s and they both survive it. Personally I think this sort of testing is important. On the surface it does not seem to have much to do with the quality of the sound but does have a lot to do with the overall quality of the product. And it does affect the quality of the sound as you approach the limits.

An ADA1500 would be perfect for what you are trying to achieve. It would make your system play really loud and clean; and the M80s can take it. Though the M100s would be even better suited for it.

Heavy metal you say Ian....care to share who/what for those of us who partake?

It also makes it unlikely that someone blows a driver when they turn them up to 11 while drunk. I'm well past that age now, but I've seen it happen at more than one house party when I was younger.

Hi Mike,

The most used album for this test would be Slayer - South of Heaven.

Most individuals are not revealed to a well created presenter overall and when they listen to one, they know it.

Hi guys, new member here. I like to put my thought on this subject.

Some people buy things for the look, some people buy things for the performance, some people buy things for its value, and some people buy things...well, just because they CAN. I been browsing some audio forums in the last few days doing some research on Axiom LFR1100 and noticed there are some people out there who don't care for Axiom, some outright just laugh at Axiom,and there are few these individuals who even wanted to axe Axiom to death. To whose people I say everyday we make choices, wither it's good one, bad one, right one, or wrong one. It's understandable that we like to rely on other's recommendation or we just want OUR choice to be right/justifiable. That's perfectly fine. But really, how boring would life be if we all end up driving the same car, same design of house, listening to the same set of stereo? There are hundreds if not thousands audio brands out there, who is to say which brands is the best. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I say don't worry so much and just enjoy what you have and if you really hate it. There is always that 30 days return policy

Cheers

Howard
-------
Please excuse my English or spelling as it's not my first language

I almost didn't buy Axiom's due to the hate on another site, but after listening to these for awhile now I can say with 100% confidence that I will not be upgrading any time soon and when I do Axiom will definitely be at the top of my list of options. I'm using 3 M22 in walls for LCR and 4 QS8's for surround and rear surround in my home theater and they put a smile on my face from ear to ear every time that I turn them on.

Thankfully it has diminished dramatically in the last while. I believe that the great reviews of the LFRs & Brystons (Axiom built) out there plus the M100s (along with several other excellent brands) at HTS by 3 credible 'experts' made a big difference in the attitude out there. The negative BS just doesn't stand up to proper scrutiny anymore & never did IMO.

Furthermore, several of us here won't put up with any of the juvenile BS that we find out there either & unrelentingly provide a counter view when appropriate...

TAM

This is what I was shooting for. I wanted people to know what my experiences were in the real world. I have owned a lot of high powered or big speakers but if I really pushed them even with a really clean track, I was always on the volume up and down to save the weaker drivers. I don't have that problem with the Axioms they just take it and don't distort as much at high volume. I like that they are transparent, It forces me to listen to better quality music and if they can take me pounding on them for over a year they are good. I have 2 kids and I don't get to crank my system very much anymore but when I do Im up all night sending it the tracks that will push it to the limits. I am Canadian and I love a good product from North America, I have auditioned my speakers to many people and they can't believe their ears. I have listened to better speakers than what Axiom has to offer but they are out of reach for the average person and it boils down to what you like? I don't like crossovers that cover up bad recordings. I have found when testing speakers you need to play a bad track then a good track, some speakers will make a bad track sound good but they will make a good track sound ok, others will make a good track sound good but a bad track sound horrible and I think a lot of people were fooled by Axiom by playing bad tracks and thinking the speakers sounded bad because their poor recording from an iphone compressed 2 or more times made the song sound weak.