Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
#406432 08/04/14 12:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
So for my middle son's 17th birthday he requested a turntable and a Robert Johnson album... well as y'all know there's more to a turntable than just the turntable. So began the quest for a decent starter system that would at least get him moving forward on the right path. I didn't want to break the bank, but a pair of Axiom M3's was the minimum for a set of speakers. Of course a turntable needs a phono pre-amp, but lots of the older AVR's had one built in, so I found a Technics SA GX790 (of which I have one - first surround processor I owned and still have!) on ebay for $60, plus $40 for shipping - so he ended up with a 100W/ch and a phono preamp built in.
Andrew recommended the U-Turn turntable, so I ordered one. What I didn't count on was the 8 week lead time needed due to supply v. demand. So as part of his birthday he learned delayed gratification. I had him watch The Distortion of Sound as posted on the U-Turn twitter feed. He was already aware of the loudness wars, but I have a few CD's with minimal compression that were produced before the wars began, including Dire Straits / Brothers in Arms, one of the first all digital albums produced and one i've owned since it came out. So he got that CD and my Oppo player (since the HT is not set up in the new digs yet).

Combining all that and several albums sourced new and old, he is amazed at what he's been missing, growing up in an MP3/earbud world. So now if he wants to get a better amp or pre-amp or a different mat or a different cartridge for the turntable, he can continue to build a better system as his interest and income allow.


Scott

My HT
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406434 08/04/14 11:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
You are a great Dad!


With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406437 08/04/14 08:26 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
M
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
M
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
The one part of that video that I really didn't like was it portrayed all digital recordings as being lossy compressed.

But you need to look at the signal to noise ratio, bandwidth and dynamic headroom inside any recording. Yes, an MP3 trashes any recording by cutting out actual data from what was there. But what about some of the rather good digital compression codecs that are out there.

Think of music like a large text file. You can have a printed page in front of you, and it's the exact same as having a digital replica of that page on the computer. But the digital copy I can zip (rar, lhz...) that will take that digital copy and compress it but do it so that zero loss occurred.

Now back to music. There are compression codecs that can take sound and do the same. FLAC, ALAC, APE...) that will save space over a WAV or AIFF file but still sound identical when played back.

What the video didn't bother to mention was how every recording is in fact a lossy process. Think of it. You record has background noise that is not part of the original sound produced. The tape is controlled by the amount of magnetic particles and the Inches Per Second it was recorded at. The digital recording is by the number of bits (16, 24, 32) and sample rate (44.1, 96, 192khz). all are technically loosing data, but is the data lost important or not?

I'd like to see artists start selling the 24b/96khz recordings for me in FLAC. and I would hazzard to guess it probably would have a better SNR and DH than any record pressed.

Last edited by oakvillematt; 08/04/14 08:26 PM.

Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406438 08/04/14 09:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
Unfortunately Matt, even though we now have better compression tech most of the crap floating around on the Net and on peoples players and their home ripped files are MP3. It is really hard to unring a bell, hopefully one day we shall be free moohahhaha

]As for vinyl, its ok if you not into it, but its not just the sound its the physical media, the covers ,the liner notes and act of playing the record. Some people don't care or don't get it but it doesn't make those who enjoy vinyl wrong or crazy.


DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406443 08/05/14 11:44 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
M
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
M
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
I have no problem with liking vinyl. it does sound very different to a digital copy in there is an added sound to it that makes you know it's vinyl. There is that emotional connection to vinyl and a physical presence that makes it different. I do enjoy listening to it in that form.

My comment was more on the video that was linked in the OP. If we are trying to get the music as close to the original concept that the artist had envisioned and heard with their master recording, then we would all be listening to 1" reel to reel tape recorded at 15ips. But as it was said in the video, we are slaves to convenience ad a pressed album is far easier to use than a large spool reel to reel tape player. Lots of us grew up with buying a vinyl album, and recording it to micro cassette tape to listen to. CD actually has a better SNR and DR over vinyl but in the process exposed how tracks were mixed in the vinly days. The job of the producer/mixer was to make the best possible sound for the medium it was recorded to. When CD came along they directly dumped expecting it just to sound better, but as CD had a cleaner floor and ceiling, so background noise was suddenly reviled. A vinyl album is around 50-60db SNR where a CD is up at 90-100db. Go to 24bit recording and you can get up to 144db of SNR.

If we are trying to get to that nirvana of sound, then a lossless digital recording is where we want to be.


Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
MatManhasgone #406446 08/05/14 07:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,437
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,437
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
If we are trying to get to that nirvana of sound, then a lossless digital recording is where we want to be.

That, or in a live venue staffed by an audio engineer who knows their s**t. smile


I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
pmbuko #406452 08/05/14 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
If we are trying to get to that nirvana of sound, then a lossless digital recording is where we want to be.

That, or in a live venue staffed by an audio engineer who knows their s**t. smile


I'm in the process of learning some s#!t !

Our church just got a new digital mixer and a pair of speakers and a pair of subs One of the best parts is that my kid is lead guitar (and/or mandolin) every other week - so the incentive to learn is even greater than just getting to playing with cool equipment.


Scott

My HT
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406453 08/05/14 10:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The first order of the day is to figure out how to get people to understand that they need high rez, like Neil Young is trying to do. For me ,I started with vinyl and now that I cant hear much above 14k the dynamic range of vinyl is more than adequate. Don't get me wrong , I love the convenience of digital and in the average car who can tell the difference. It will be a long way back from MP3's , kinda like carburetors thank god they have gone the way of the dinosaur.


DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
a401classic #406456 08/06/14 01:16 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
M
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
M
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
I was on a site looking to find a new source for getting a digital copy of the TV shows that I like. I saw a bunch of 24/96 FLAC recordings off vinyl.

I though about it for a bit, and then wondered why would someone want to do that? But I grabbed a pink floyd album that I own on CD and figured that I would sit down and give it a try to see if I can actually hear any difference between the two recordings.


Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A
Re: New vinyl system for 17 yr old...
MatManhasgone #406458 08/06/14 01:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
I was on a site looking to find a new source for getting a digital copy of the TV shows that I like. I saw a bunch of 24/96 FLAC recordings off vinyl.

I though about it for a bit, and then wondered why would someone want to do that? But I grabbed a pink floyd album that I own on CD and figured that I would sit down and give it a try to see if I can actually hear any difference between the two recordings.



AND THEN


DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,396
Posts432,296
Members15,418
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,437
SirQuack 13,690
CV 11,815
MarkSJohnson 11,451
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 250 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4