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#407008 - 09/04/14 07:59 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
if you want Crowns XLS, get the 1500, not the 1000.

the latter has a residual noise level a bit too high;
the other one will be very quiet.
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See: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#407010 - 09/04/14 08:24 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Pump the brakes! eek

We have witnessed you buy, return, buy, sell, buy, cancel.... It is obvious you are excited to get your system up to top snuff, but you gotta focus on synergy of setup first. You already own a silly good system! Really! cool

If you really want to get your rig up to your expectations you have to learn how your room interacts with the speakers and tailor accordingly. This is not something that is solved with spending money. Time is your answer. Slow down is my advice. smile Just trying to prevent buyers remorse.

If you are itching to keep building and growing your system, you may need a pitstop with some research to let your wallet heal. The buy stuff itch doesnt go away until you understand the limitations of your listening environment. Otherwise its a slippery slope to upgraditis land. Where few survive to tell the tale..... sick or are ever satisfied.

Your key to audio nirvana is in this book:

http://www.amazon.ca/Handbook-Sound-Stud...of+sound+studio

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#407014 - 09/04/14 09:48 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6290
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Is there any chance the Anthem amp has slightly higher gain than the amp in your receiver and part of the difference in sound between them is that the levels are just a bit higher going through the Anthem ?

I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference in sound between the two amps when running surround content through them at normal levels, although (a) if the levels aren't exactly matched then all bets are off, and (b) if you are listening only to the surround channels and cranking the levels up you may be playing loudly enough to be crowding the limits on the receiver's amp... but I don't think you would hear the same difference when playing normal content.

I guess I'm arguing for "use the Anthem front & center, use the receiver's amp for surrounds, make sure the levels are right, and enjoy".

But 11.1 sounds interesting too laugh


Edited by bridgman (09/04/14 09:49 PM)
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8

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#407016 - 09/04/14 10:21 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: AAAA]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1096
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Originally Posted By: Serenity_Now
Pump the brakes! eek

We have witnessed you buy, return, buy, sell, buy, cancel.... It is obvious you are excited to get your system up to top snuff, but you gotta focus on synergy of setup first. You already own a silly good system! Really! cool


You are somewhat correct.

I bought a set of M80 speakers. I listened to them and they did sound good. But I thought that the lower frequencies didn't sound as good as I would have liked.

So yes, I did return the M80 speakers back to Axiom. Isn't that what their return policy is all about.. they don't happen to have a store near by, and Brent couldn't find anyone with a set of M80.v4 speakers near me, so i said I'd give them a try and see if I liked. Funny how Axiom seems to have made the HP series of speakers to address this to add a bit more omph into the lower frequencies.

So I looked at the cost of buying the M80HP, and I looked at buying the M100, and then a pair of LFR1100 came up on B-Stock that were a good $1000 off new, and I decided that it was a great deal and not to pass it up. So yea, I bought them.

I also bought was I thought was a great deal on an Integra pre-amp, but it turned out that the main processor board was fried and would cost another $4-500 to fix when it was worked out, so I said 'to heck with that' and sold it to someone else who didn't care that the surround speakers would never work.

I did see a pair of the EP800 on refurb. I hummed and ahhed about them for a week then phoned up Brend and purchased them. But after a bit more consideration and before the weekend was out, realized that the shear size of them was more than I really wanted as I mocked up some cardboard boxes to represent how they would look, and felt it wouldn't fit in my room. So I phoned him back up and said lets cancel that order as exlabdriver had tried to purchase the same referb speakers at the same time. It's not that I could not have used them.. they were probably too large for the room I felt and as someone else had wanted to buy, I thought it was being a really nice guy. You on the other hand seem to have chastised me for it.


Perhaps I should point out:

A - it is my money and if I'd like to spend it then why shouldn't I.

B - they are my ears that are telling me that it sounds different, and that I like it better when I play the surround speakers through the anthem amp (but the fronts don't sound as good as I loose the omni). Perhaps there is another reason why it sounds wrong to me.

C - I don't remember you coming around to my place to see the room and decide that it hasn't been built to the correct standards to get the most sound possible out of it. It might be a great book but so are some of the other books that I have read too. Why buy anther boot to tell me that my room is not perfect.

Right now I am just looking at my options to figure out what will be right for me.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#407017 - 09/04/14 10:37 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13675
Loc: Iowa
I've tried Emotiva (won't go there), Odyssey Extreme Khartagas monos(loved them, but only drove my LR), and now have the Outlaw and just love it, but boy it is a back breaker.
_________________________
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800



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#407018 - 09/04/14 10:43 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: bridgman]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1096
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Originally Posted By: bridgman
Is there any chance the Anthem amp has slightly higher gain than the amp in your receiver and part of the difference in sound between them is that the levels are just a bit higher going through the Anthem ?


You are probably very right with this. The anthem is a more powerful amp @ 250w but some say it's very conservative. the receiver is rated at 120w. The problem is that when I do the pioneer sound setup with the mic, the end results make the front speakers sound just as wrong as the rear speakers, rather than the other way of making the rears sound better.

I will freely admit that I don't know why I think it sounds better when I hook up the anthem. If I had a second powered amp, I could so some better testing. See if it's just me making it up in my head because I've already concluded that i should sound better so therefor I am making it.

But I don't see anyone jumping up and down when someone says that are looking to upgrade to the M80HP or the M100 speakers and saying to them, that they should check their room to sonically improve it, or they have upgraditis. All I want is to get my room sounding where I'd like it to be. and if it turns out that all I need is another acoustic panel made and put on a wall then great. But with any experiment, you don't know what will work until you try it.

As usual.. I'll just sit and ponder over this for a while and then get sidetracked into doing something else and come to accept that it sounds the way that it does until it bothers me that much that I'll make a change.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#407019 - 09/04/14 11:04 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6290
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Random comments :

1. You're going to get more people jumping up and down about amp upgrades vs speaker upgrades for the simple reason that the "generally accepted range of different experiences" is much wider for speakers than for amps, maybe by 5:1 or 10:1.

2. I haven't had the greatest luck with any receiver's auto-setup, so the first thing I usually do is turn it off and get out a manual SPL meter. This has been more difficult since my SPL meter disappeared into the dark corners of my brother-in-law's basement.

I would suggest that auto-setup introduces a degree of randomness you probably don't need at this point. Subject to being jumped on by others, my guess is that you've done enough listening tests to be able to match speaker levels by ear as well as the auto-setup can do.

3. I've been mucking with audio systems for ~35 years and continue to be astounded by how much difference the room (placement, FRP treatments, other treatments) makes. More than the speakers, but not a lot more.

I guess the important distinction with amps is between (a) getting a sufficiently powerful amp to replace a not-sufficiently-powerful one (where the difference is huge) and (b) replacing a sufficiently powerful amp with a "better" sufficiently powerful amp (where differences seem to exist but are much more subtle, maybe 20:1 or higher).
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8

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#407021 - 09/05/14 05:43 AM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
No offense intended. smile

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#407024 - 09/05/14 09:05 AM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1096
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
The LFR1100 speakers require you to have an external amp to be able to use it. If you had just a receiver that has could have a wonderful sounding amp inside of it, you would still be S.O.L. as you need to run pre-out to the DPS then into 4 channels of amplification.

I just happened to have a 5 channel amp that I was using for 5.1 surround. As my first post indicated, if I just used this amp, I would only have 3.1 because those fronts used up the channels that would have been for the surround.

The receiver I have does have the ability to run the rear speakers using the built in amp. If I was watching a movie, then it probably would be OK. But when I put on some SACD or DVD-A 5.1 music, I find that the sound out of the rear speakers doesn't sound as good as it should or could. Now yea, with futzing around with the amp I might be able to tweak it better. perhaps I will play with it for a bit to see what I can do.

I was just trying to explore the idea of seeing as I got new front speakers, why not buy a new amp (as they do require 4 channels) and asking what other patrons of this board would suggest. this would allow me to use my MCA just for the center and augment the rear to get 7.1

Thanks to J.B. for suggesting if I go Crown XLS to get the 1500.. And to SirQuack for letting me know that Outlaw sounds great. Two options that I now have to consider.

I will also take some time to see what comes up in the used market for multi channel amps.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#407026 - 09/05/14 12:07 PM Re: Getting a new amp solution for my LFR1100's [Re: MatManhasgone]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 2015
Loc: Canada
Axiom does seem to underrate their speakers abilities, you may want to consider an amp which meets or exceeds (double) the 400 w stated.
Sorry if I've missed it, do you have pictures posted?


Edited by brwsaw (09/05/14 12:15 PM)
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