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#407084 - 09/08/14 01:05 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
rprice54 Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 102
Loc: North Georgia
I'm going with the Marantz. Gonna use an old AVR to power extra set of ceiling speakers for 7.2.4 (just sounds crazy). The more I look around I'm leaning towards the in wall M3s, or maybe even the in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds. It would certainly be a cleaner look with painted grills. I bought my LCR with the Sept coupon promotion, when my coupon comes in later this month I'll get the surrounds, but looking at 3 more pairs of speakers (ouch!).

It'll be interesting to see what info comes out this week.

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#407090 - 09/08/14 11:19 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
OK. CEDIA is just a couple of days away, however I already have the answer to what type of speakers for Dolby Atmos speakers from a mono/di/bi/quad pole perspective since that was part of this conversation.

Craig Eggers from Dolby states that monopole (direct) speakers are most desired, and thus the reason manufactures are going that route for their speakers touting the "Atmos" name. With that said, he went on to say that "bi/di pole speakers will work, but the effect will be diminished." When pushed on the subject, he came back with basically "it would be 'less than ideal' to use anything but monopole speakers."

He and Brett Crockett, also from Dolby, kept offering up that the Dolby Atmos system "adapts" and "is scalable" and "works with what tools it is given (referring to speakers and connections)." So when he said "less than ideal" to use anything but direct firing speakers, I took that, based off of his tone, as it isn't a good idea, or better yet, why bother, but didn't want to take away from how "dynamically adaptable" the system is.

What I would love would be a surface mountable direct speaker that can be ceiling mounted. That way I wouldn't have to punch four 8.25" holes in my soundproofed ceiling... On-wall speakers would work if there was a way to "lock" them to the ceiling, but as they currently exist, they use gravity to "hang" on the power bracket, and that isn't designed for ceiling mount.
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#407091 - 09/08/14 11:29 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
rprice54 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 102
Loc: North Georgia
Interesting. So if I already had a full complement of surrounds I'd stick with what I have. But otherwise sounds like in-wall m3s will be the way to go.

I guess you could build and enclosure and mount the ceiling speaker in there if you don't want holes in the ceiling.

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#407093 - 09/09/14 12:26 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
They were talking specifically about the Atmos speakers for the ceiling. No issues with the surrounds being bi/di/quad-pole.

I am REALLY hoping to get to do the A/B/C demo at Dolby's booth this year. They are going to play a 7.1 soundtrack, then do 7.1.4 with "Dolby Atmos Ready" speakers (the ones that fire up at the ceiling), and then a 7.1.4 with a regular 7.1 setup and the final .4 being ceiling mounted speakers. The listening room is supposed to have 3 rows of seats, so we will see what happens.

There are many Atmos sound demos going on, and another one that I am looking forward to is a 9.1.4 setup where it is the traditional 7.1, plus 2 front wide speakers, and then the 4 in-ceiling speakers.

But again, the idea is that any additional speakers can still get you to the "Atmos Nirvana" by adding on to an existing 5.1 or 7.1 setup. Heck, anything above 5.1 can actually go through the Atmos upscaler process and playback "object based" Atmos sound, even without ceiling speakers (yup, a traditional 7.1 can playback an Atmos track with improved imaging), but the ceiling speakers are where the "magic" happens, as they put it.
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2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407096 - 09/09/14 06:09 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11445
Loc: Central NH
Can a QS4/QS8 be rewired or can a few of the drivers in an enclosure be disconnected to essentially make the QS series a direct-fired design? Of course, you're halving the drivers, but the build profile might work for surface-mount on ceilings.

If there's a phase issue, it could be corrected by swapping the input wires or at the receivers end...or within the receivers' controls.
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#407112 - 09/09/14 09:51 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Mark, re-wiring wouldn't be needed because the drivers in the QSs operate in-phase and don't make use of phase effects to accomplish their wide dispersion.

Disconnecting some of the drivers to leave just one tweeter and one mid-woofer would appear to gut the design advantages of the QSs and leave a comparatively mediocre, more directional speaker.
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#407142 - 09/11/14 11:55 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
Atmos demo #1 done. Steinway Lyngdorf audio system only costs $128,000 for that one. Next up is Dolby's A/B/C demo with 7.1, then 7.1.4 with ceiling mounted speakers, and then 7.1.4 with speakers mounted on top of the main speakers and pointing up. I already asked a slew of questions, but had to get in line for the demo. I still have a few more questions to ask. I will post more details tonight.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407143 - 09/11/14 12:01 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
rprice54 Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 102
Loc: North Georgia
Thanks nick. Can't wait to hear more about it. My in-ceiling m3s shipped yesterday, I'll let you guys know how those are when they get here.

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#407144 - 09/11/14 03:17 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
Well, I asked about ceilings, speakers in ceiling vs mounted on existing speakers, surround speaker types, placement of speakers so on and so forth.

I will report most things back in another thread, but for Atmos, Dolby confirmed that they want ALL monopole speakers. While bi/di/quad pole are great for regular surround, they don't work well when trying to "place" audio "objects" into a sound field. Moving forward, dispersed audio will no longer be our friend for surrounds.

Also, for ceiling speakers, they should be placed in. Such a fashion that is you drew a "box" around your seating area (1 row, w rows, whatever) then you would basically place each of the 4 speakers just outside that box's corners and point/direct them so that they are pointed directly at the middle of that box. Not sure if the ceiling M3s can tilt inside the cabinet or not.

That is about all that I feel like typing in on my phone for now. Dolby.com should have install guides available online starting today for other setups like 7.1.2.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407151 - 09/11/14 07:10 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Just in time for the winter build! Thanks Nick!

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