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#407471 - 09/27/14 09:49 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
eman Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Florida
I currently have the vp160 center , m22 L/R , and qs8 for surround , 2 HSU VTF 3 MK4 subs , and 4 yamaha aw390 outdoor speakers that I will be using for my ceiling speakers. ( I know they are not timbre match with the axiom speakers but i'm using what i already have. ) I'm going for a 7.2.4 atmos setup and need another pair of speakers. I was going for another pair of qs8 until I came across this thread . Thanks for Nick about the Atmos experience and Q&A about what is needed for a decent but almost accurate home setup. I have a few questions and instead of starting a new thread hopefully they can be answered here. Since Dolby recommend monopole for all speakers which would better match my system , the m2 on walls or the m3 on walls ? ( I was thinking the M2 since the woofer matches the M22 .... idk ) My other question is whichever on wall speaker i buy do i place them as my side surround or for rear surround ? ( I currently have the qs8 for side surround.) And my last question is how high should i place the surround speakers ? The qs8 and the on wall monopoles. I currently have the qs8 at 6' high. According to Dolby the side surround and rear speaker placement should be placed " around " the same height as the listening - level speakers because the atmos ceiling speaker will do the height and above surround effects.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/...-guidelines.pdf


Edited by eman (09/27/14 10:16 AM)

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#407477 - 09/27/14 08:59 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
I only have a few minutes before I need to head out for something, but I do have some thoughts on this. M2s would seem to be a better match for you, if you want Dolby Atmos imaging to be correct, you will have to replace the QS8s. I know that Dolby said that di/bi pole (and thus quad poles like the QS speakers) would be "ok," but if you could see the facial expression on the guy from Dolby when he said that, you could tell that is was almost painful for him to even say that people could use something that wasn't direct radiating (monopole).

If I was experimenting, I would say to put the QS8s in the rear, and the M2s on the sides and here is why...

With monopole fronts, sides, and overhead speakers, you should be able to get some pretty good object based sound effects in front of your ears, and the "less accurate" effect from the QS8s would be behind you where it wouldn't be as critical since sound behind our ears isn't as discernible as to its exact location.

Height is probably OK at 6', but in the demos I was in, they were, on average, just about ear level on the wall, which would be closer to 4' - 4.5'. This gives a little bit more room between the speakers on the ground/stands/walls and the ones on the ceiling which in turns allows for a bigger "dome" of sound as Dolby put it.
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2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407478 - 09/28/14 08:24 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
What concerns me about all the new atmos details is the new ideal height for side and rear surrounds of 1-1.25x the height of the mains. Basically 4-4.5 feet as Nick said.

Not an issue for in wall speakers, but on wall.... Kind of draws away from traditional speaker layout in a 7ch setup. How will this affect legacy audio sound mixes/layouts I wonder.

Thanks for the linky eman.

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#407485 - 09/28/14 10:12 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
I just ran some numbers on what I would get from Axiom if I wanted to trade in my QS8s (one pair from 2004 and one pair, current model, from late 2011 but not used until mid-2012) to swap to something like M2 for monopole surrounds to lead up to Atmos down the road, but I only get $598 in credit (minus $30 for one set of boxes), which isn't even close to what would be needed to replace them ($880 for four new M2 on-walls for the surrounds), and I would still need to get ceiling speakers at some point.

Of course, every day that I wait, the less money I get at trade in, but the sooner I upgrade, the less "normal" surround sound I get to enjoy since I won't be jumping on Atmos until receivers get cheaper, and some level of DTS's version is supported would be nice too and that won't be for at least a year for that to be announced. Ugh. Stupid hobby.

Maybe Axiom would cut me a deal to be a Dolby Atmos home theater using their speakers. smile
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2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407488 - 09/29/14 05:22 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Nerd rant:

I spent sunday at the "church of research" and came to the conclusion doing nothing for ATMOS in a hurry is warranted. Its still beyond bleeding edge and the interview at HTGeeks with Craig Eggers et al. was very "salesy." Took the wind out of my sails to be honest. I really wanted to be more excited about the ATMOS prewire than I ended up being.

At dolbys site the list of movies mixed in ATMOS since 2012 is kinda paltry. Only a hanfull announced so far for 2015.

I remember when prologic II was supposed to be amazing... It sucked compared to discrete. If "dolby atmos surround" upscaling is even in the same ballpark I'd pass. Dolby PL2z wasn't even taken seriously....

I'm with you- DTS will make up my mind with what they answer with. Also with you that keeping up with this changing sound format stuff is expensive!

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#407489 - 09/29/14 06:58 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
Well, then sir you have been mislead by HTGeeks.

Hands down, Atmos was quite the buzz at CEDIA. People are STILL talking about it. A number of skeptics in the "industry" left CEDIA really excited about it.

Is it still too early to jump on the hardware? Yes. I am a firm believer is skipping "generation 1" tech for this kind of stuff.

With that said, ATMOS processing will make even your non-ATMOS movies sound better... At least if they have a Dolby HD track. Not sure how DTS HD-MA audio will be handled through ATMOS, or if it will did anything with it at all.

Again, don't take my word for it, check around and this is THE jump in audio technology that people have been waiting for since Dolby Surround. Oh, and I was a skeptic of ATMOS too, especially for the home, but I am a firm believer in it now.

Check out this video, or at least the first half of it, where they talk about the best of CEDIA and spend 30 minutes just talking about ATMOS.

Home Theater Geeks CEDIA Round Up
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2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407490 - 09/30/14 05:25 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
If Mark Henninger and Scott are convinced, there is hope for me yet. grin

I hope the futureshop in town gets an atmos demo. I'd like a date before I marry the technology. laugh

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#407491 - 09/30/14 07:04 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
I would still say "plan now" but don't pull the trigger on the speakers yet, and if you can hold off on getting a receiver for another year, do it.
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2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#407519 - 10/04/14 07:32 PM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: rprice54]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Yep, receiver will wait until 4k standard is hammered down and HDCP 2.2 is common between brands to not be a "feature" anymore.

By then ATMOS/DTSUHD should be vetted out as well. Already saving. laugh

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#407520 - 10/05/14 12:02 AM Re: Surrounds for Dolby Atmos- QS8's or direct firing? [Re: AAAA]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5371
Loc: Marion, IA
Originally Posted By: Serenity_Now
Yep, receiver will wait until 4k standard is hammered down and HDCP 2.2 is common between brands to not be a "feature" anymore.

By then ATMOS/DTSUHD should be vetted out as well. Already saving. laugh


Plus they will all do DTS's version of object based audio, and maybe even Auro-3D (although I doubt that Auro will get much traction).
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