Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 14 15
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407949 11/04/14 03:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
R
veteran
Offline
veteran
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
My understanding is that they only need to be angled if they fall outside of the recommended listening angles. They may not be 'ideal' Atmos but I wanted something that would match all my other Axiom drivers.

Hoping to get the ceiling painted tonight and I'll install them and give them a try. The room will be functional minus acoustic treatments next week. I'll have a better idea how they sound as a part of an Atmos system.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407950 11/04/14 04:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
Dolby specifically recommends angled speakers for overhead though, so I just thought I would comment about it. When I was at CEDIA, the question came up several times at various booths, and I specifically talked to one of the Dolby "engineers" (not sure if they really send engineers, but he seemed knowledgeable) and he too told me that they should be slightly angled towards the middle of your listening area. If you have 4 speakers, then they form a "box" just outside of your seating area, and the speakers angle towards the middle of that seating area. Straight down was "less than ideal," whatever that means.

I have two different "less than ideal" issues for me. My ceiling is less than 8 feet tall, and I don't have direct radiating surround speakers. Both are "less than ideal."

I agree that matching the speaker drivers is super critical too for a consistent effect though.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407952 11/05/14 01:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077
Likes: 7
C
CV Offline OP
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
OP Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
C
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077
Likes: 7
Maybe Axiom can make a box to mount the M3 In-Ceilings in that will allow easy angling of the speakers? It might be at significant extra cost, but it would be nice to have the option.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
nickbuol #407954 11/05/14 03:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 1
B
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
B
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
Dolby specifically recommends angled speakers for overhead though


Where?
In the Dolby specs I've read this is only true if the speaker doesn't cover the listening area.

There's lots of people only stating otherwise but that doesn't make it true.

From pages 7 and 8 of Dolby's installation guide released in Sept.

"Most high-power, full-frequency conventional overhead speakers with wide dispersion characteristics will work in a Dolby Atmos home theater."

&

"If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position."

Last edited by brwsaw; 11/05/14 03:23 AM.


Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407955 11/05/14 03:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
It came straight from the Dolby "engineers" at CEDIA, and was specifically a talking point when they talked about "proper overhead speaker placement." Their demo, which you would sure think would be all about proper setup, had overhead speakers angled inward. The idea as they put it is that it creates more of a "dome" of sound, vs. a "box" with speakers pointing straight down.

Get out your time machine and meet me at CEDIA. Bring an audio recording device (cameras were only "allowed" for press, although I snuck some photos) and you can hear it and document it yourself. I documented it in my "right after CEDIA" comments in different threads here and elsewhere. I pointed out specifically that Axiom's In-Ceiling M3s don't angle like Dolby recommends.

It isn't like I am making this stuff up. shocked Keep in mind though that these things were stated at CEDIA a few days before anything was written up for their website downloads or datasheets. They already were backpedaling on their "8 foot - 14 foot ceiling" requirement stating that it is more about filling a sound field than being specifically in that ceiling height range. Maybe their final print says otherwise, but just like the 8ft - 14ft "requirement," if they ever revise it and remove that requirement doesn't mean that 8ft-14ft isn't ideal or what they designed for. Maybe the angled speaker piece was like that and they didn't want to alienate people who want to buy speakers that can't angle, or for people with ceilings less than 8ft or greater than 14ft.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407956 11/05/14 04:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
R
veteran
Offline
veteran
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
I wonder if an Axiom folks can comment on the 'wide dispersion pattern' of these speakers. Mine are each about 30 degrees front and back which are within the white paper specs.

It wouldn't be super hard to make a wedge shaped disc that you could rotate around to aim these. I'm Going to see how they sound 'as is.'

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407958 11/05/14 12:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 1
A
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
A
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 1
I wasnt at CEDIA, But

In a couple of webcasts recapping the CEDIA event they talked about straight down vs angled atmos implementation.

Straight down caused hot spots directly under the speakers in the listening room and dead spots on the further side away. Central seating was the exception obviously.

The concensus was the best ATMOS demo at the show was the Golden Ear setup, by Sandy Gross. (Founder of Polk, Definitive tech and now Golden Ear.) considered even better than Dolby's own! laugh In a recent HTGeeks podcast he explained why all speakers need to be angled towards the MLP slightly to create a uniform soundfield, Specifically ATMOS setups. He goes into some detail about the choices made in their demo room.

It seems the best final arrangement is a blend of science and artful placement. Fodder for us to scrutinize until ATMOS is properly vetted in homes.

Here is the vid:


Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407959 11/05/14 03:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
While GoldenEar's demo was REALLY good (better than even ones that I flagged ahead of time as being the "must experience" demos), the best absolutely went to another group. Lyngdorf Steinway hands down had THE best demo of all of them. Of course, when you have $126,000 (dealer cost, NOT retail) in speakers and audio processing, it better be good.

Even at the Dolby booth, they were telling people about the Lyngdorf Steinway demo. In a few on-site discussions, L/S came up as "WOW, did you experience that demo?" At the AVS after party, L/S was mentioned as a favorite, with GoldenEar second. I guess if you factor in price, maybe GoldenEar's demo WAS the best after all. grin

But yes, for people with real budgets (even though GoldenEar isn't inexpensive), I would agree that they had arguably the 2nd best demo there overall, and maybe the best when price was factored in.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407960 11/05/14 03:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
R
veteran
Offline
veteran
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
That's A lot of M3's!

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #407964 11/05/14 04:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
253 pairs of in ceiling M3s. Granted, that $126,000 price tag included massive fronts, and a $x0,000 sound processor.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Page 5 of 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 14 15

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 402 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4