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M60 v3 vs. V4
#408246 11/22/14 02:01 PM
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Hi,

I can trade-up my M60 v3's (from 2010) to v4's for a fairly reasonable (but far from trivial) price.

I have searched but can't really find a definitive answer regarding the changes in the sound between them.

I know they have the new tweeter but what changes, if any, are there to the crossover?

The frequency response graph appears to slightly slope down now instead of being completely flat. (kind of what I would be looking for to reduce the sometimes slightly harsh highs / female vocals from the v3 and add a little warmth)

Maybe Alan can chime in here? I very much trust his guidance.

Would this trade-up be worth it?

No, I am NOT interested in going for a higher-end model like the M80. I have a small room and don't need anything larger or more powerful! (nor can I afford it) The M60 is simply perfect for me!

My M60's are the mains in my home theater setup as well as being used alone for stereo music listening.

Thank you!

--Mark--


M2v3's, M60v3's, VP100
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
MarkyM #408247 11/22/14 04:25 PM
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Hi Mark,

I spotted my name in your query so, although I'm retired from Axiom, I thought I'd mention a couple of factors.

I don't believe I ever did listening tests of the M60 v4. If memory serves, I think the last version I heard was the v3.

In passing, I'd note that whenever Ian upgrades an Axiom model with a new tweeter, he will always tweak the crossover a bit to adjust it to the characteristics of the new tweeter and achieve a smooth neutral frequency response. In past listening tests, the main improvements I heard in upgraded M80s and M22s were improved spatial presentation, a more convincing "3D" image with greater width and depth, and I'd expect that to be the case in the v4 upgrade. I'd describe past improvements as "subtle but audible" in the various upgrades I heard.

I'm a bit troubled by your comments on your M60s' "sometimes slightly harsh highs/female vocals". Going way back to the original M60s before the various upgrades, that was certainly one of my constant criticisms of the M60s. I heard it on vocals and horns, a kind of edginess that bugged me. But that seemed to have disappeared in the last blind tests I did; I recall writing down "this is a wonderful speaker!" and I'd certainly never said that about the M60s in previous tests.

Perhaps Ian might be able to find that listening test I did of the M60s a few years ago and report which version I was listening to -- it was likely the v3.

Generally speaking, the newer tweeters have better power handling at very loud playback levels, and hence sound smoother and less stressed than previous tweeters.

You'll have to make that decision about the v4 upgrade and whether it's "worth it."

Regards,
Alan


Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
alan #408248 11/22/14 05:58 PM
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Thank you so much Alan for responding. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were retired from Axiom. I hope you are enjoying your retirement!

Not to worry, I love my M60's and what I'm hearing is very subtle and only on some material. It's that great accuracy :-)

>>>improved spatial presentation, a more convincing "3D" image with greater width and depth, and I'd expect that to be the case in the v4 upgrade.

Wow! I don't know how this could get any better than it is on the v3's!

That is the first thing that struck me about these and one big reason I have kept them and love them so much. With a good stereo recording, I can swear sometimes that the surrounds are on but they're not!! With previous speakers, I would listen to music with the "5 Ch. Stereo" mode on in my AVR to get better imaging but not so since the M60's. I use only "Direct" stereo mode always for stereo music listening. Absolutely no need for any DSP enhancement whatsoever.

I certainly don't need better power handling in my room but I'd still like to hear from anyone that has updated to v4 from v3 and what they have noticed.

Thanks!

--Mark--


M2v3's, M60v3's, VP100
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
MarkyM #408249 11/22/14 06:34 PM
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There is/was information in spades on the V4 changes. Try searching and see what you find - unless you already have! LOL


Regards,

Mike
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
MarkyM #408252 11/22/14 06:47 PM
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I moved from M60v3's to M80v4's. I also have some older M80TI's.

The biggest difference I can tell between the v3 and v4 high frequency, is the v4's seem a bit smoother overall. It's not really fair comparing the mid range and lower, as the M80 does have more drivers, but in all honesty, they do not have a different "sound". The M80's just punch a bit harder.

I do prefer the higher end frequencies these newer versions have over my M80 TI's, generally. There are times when I kinda miss that older TI sound though.

I don't think it's worth the expense to move from the M60V3 to M60V4, personally. Not unless you possible wanted to get them in real wood, or a different color maybe. But to do it hoping your world will be rocked from a better sound......you'll be disappointed.

Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
michael_d #408255 11/22/14 07:24 PM
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Thank you very much michael_d.


M2v3's, M60v3's, VP100
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
MarkyM #408257 11/22/14 08:06 PM
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Spend that money on an EP800 instead. grin

I can't believe you forgot to slip that in at the end of your post Michael.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
MarkyM #408273 11/23/14 09:27 PM
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Alan retired? I didn't know that either...but have been away recently.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800


Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
SirQuack #408279 11/24/14 02:52 PM
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Hi Sir Quack and all,
My retirement was very gradual and without fanfare, so it's no surprise that no-one quite realized.
First I went on half-time a couple of years ago, then I gradually exited. My photo remained on the Axiom home page for ages.
I still check out the forums every few days, and occasionally post if I can contribute.
Besides, it's nice to see the familiar names as well as the occasional newcomer.

Regards,
Alan


Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: M60 v3 vs. V4
alan #408282 11/24/14 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: alan
... My photo remained on the Axiom home page for ages.
I still check out the forums every few days, and occasionally post if I can contribute...

Go to the products page and check out the picture top right. Who's that dude on the left with the baseball cap? smile


Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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