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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409937 02/01/15 06:32 PM
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From a speaker output perspective, the in-ceiling M3s are enough "full range" to work very well. The current question out there is if they have a wide enough dispersion to fill a wide area of sound and not "spotlight" sound straight below. I am not saying that they are not "wide" enough, I just don't think that anyone knows yet.

Dolby themselves recommend slightly angling the speakers towards the listening area, and any in-ceiling speaker with doesn't have tiltable tweeters (at least) may have a problem in being "ideal." Again, I am NOT saying that the in-ceiling M3s won't work. The ability to tilt is to allow all speakers to work, so it is a general guideline that is more critical for speakers with a narrow dispersion. Is that the M3? I don't know, and there are only a few people on here that have them, and they haven't answered that question.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409941 02/01/15 07:05 PM
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I've been super happy with mine. I have a 7.2.4 setup with on-wall M3s and in-ceiling M3s, driven by a Marantz 7009. I actually hooked just two up and sat in between them and listened to some music in stereo. They image very well without any angling. The processor is using all the surrounds to 'place' sound objects in the room. I honestly haven't worried about angling the drivers. It would be easy enough to come up with a wedge shaped ring- but I'd be worried that the surround would become too focused. Between 4 speakers on the wall and four in the ceiling you'd be hard pressed to locate a singe speaker from the MLP. Actually none of the surrounds point straight at the MLP- that's kind of the point. You don't want to be able to pick out individual drivers.

Disclaimer: the only true Atmos tracks I have are the demo material. I'm not interested in any if the current releases with Atmos. But the Dolby up mixer is great. Watched plenty of action films and I've had plenty of jets and helicopters buzz in from overhead.

I'd say try them flat. If you feel like it's lacking then you could engineer up something to tilt them. I think it's a waste of time based on my results. Axiom, with their CNC machines could whip up a ring/wedge for tilting purposes fairly easy I imagine. Might have to rework the mounting brackets a bit.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409950 02/02/15 02:08 AM
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Can you post up some pics of your room and atmos install? At this stage in the game any info or images can be very helpful. Is your setup in dolby's ideal layout? Trying to learn as much as possible from people with boots on the ground.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
rprice54 #409954 02/02/15 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: rprice54
Actually none of the surrounds point straight at the MLP- that's kind of the point. You don't want to be able to pick out individual drivers.


And yet straight from the mouths of the Dolby reps, they SHOULD be angled.

Sounds to me like the dispersion of the in-ceiling M3s is wide enough to not matter, which is great to hear.

How tall are your ceilings? Maybe we could factor that in as well.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409955 02/02/15 04:02 AM
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I don't doubt the reps said that. The white paper, however, only recommends it for narrow dispersion speakers. Maybe angled would be better. How much better for how much effort. I'm in the 'leave well enough alone' camp.

I have some sketchup models of the room. I'll look for them tomorrow. Just under 9' ceilings. Two speakers 30 degrees in front of MLP and two more 30 degrees behind. I tried to stick within the Dolby recommended angles in the Atmos white paper.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409956 02/02/15 04:09 AM
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I'm waiting for the speakers that are specifically made for 6' 7" ceilings.

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409964 02/02/15 03:08 PM
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Nick- don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you. You were there and spoke with the reps. I'm just going by what I've read online and what the white paper says. "If we were cross, I don't think I could bear it"

Posting schematics is easier than photos, my ceiling and M3s are painted black and it's really hard to get good photos of where everything is. I highlighted the drivers yellow so they would stand out. The red sphere is the MLP. The room is very close to these diagrams. The only major change is that the side surrounds are just behind the MLP. These pesky things called load bearing studs/door frames got in the way. The ceiling speakers are all equidistant from the MLP. 30 degrees front/back, and pretty close to that side to side.

Side View:




Bird's Eye


From the front of the room



From the back of the room


Angled (soffit removed)

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409965 02/02/15 03:40 PM
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Can you say textbook!

Freaking fantastic! Great schematics. We can probably agree that if your plan closely reflects the actual build, there is definitely a great wide dispersion pattern on the in ceiling M3s. I often wonder in my current layout if I used the front ceiling ATMOS locations with angled drivers, and the rears down firing, if I could get away with assigning them as wide channels. I have heard that wide with 2 overhead aids in the immersion moreso than 4 as overhead.

Have you tried this at all?

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV #409967 02/02/15 08:41 PM
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Great rendering of schematics, I have the exact setup up front with two XV15se subs and towers (m100's) and have 2 pairs of m3's in-ceiling on the way. I'm waiting before I upgrade the amp to see what DTS-X will come up with this march, so far I like what I see with the Denon x7200

Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
rprice54 #409969 02/02/15 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: rprice54
Nick- don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you. You were there and spoke with the reps. I'm just going by what I've read online and what the white paper says. "If we were cross, I don't think I could bear it"



I'm not upset at all. I just wanted to point out what Dolby reps (and a few of the speaker reps from different demos) said in person both during demos, and Dolby reps said when I specifically asked about it after the demo.

They told me things that they said would not show up on a white paper because they don't want to be "too limiting" which to me said that they didn't want to be so picky that it turned people away from the technology. Another example of this was that they want monopole speakers all around (sorry QS series). Not that bi/di/quad pole surround speakers wouldn't work, but it wasn't what they wanted as it is more difficult to create the correct imaging.

I have not looked to see if that made it in to the white paper or not, or is in any revised ones. They just said that it wasn't specified in the white paper that was coming out in the midst of CEDIA.

Also, I did say, "Sounds to me like the dispersion of the in-ceiling M3s is wide enough to not matter, which is great to hear."

To me, white papers and even what the reps say is good, but real world practice is better. White papers and verbal information is intended to make things work for the most broad of audiences. If the Axiom in-ceiling M3s work, then great. Not saying that they couldn't potentially be even better at a slight angle, but to implement the angle may not be worth whatever reward (big or small) it may yield.

Personally, I am going to experiment with both. Flat and angled, but I am doing on-wall (on-ceiling) to keep my soundproofing intact. That, however, won't be for a long while, so I won't know which works best.

All in all, I think that we can agree that they are working for you. Would an aimable tweeter be a nice enhancement to the product either way, sure... But it is working for Atmos per your experience, so that is good for me.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
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