 Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422 |
Ya know, it was mentioned back on November 3rd that aimable in-ceiling were more ideal for Atmos. Not sure when you got yours as I haven't gone back and looked...
Seriously though, didn't you say that you thought that they worked great as is? Then don't worry about it and enjoy it. I bet it sounds amazing.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Oct 2012
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 350 Likes: 3
devotee
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devotee
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 350 Likes: 3 |
Hey Nick,
Aim-able M 3 ceiling speakers for Atmos application , did this ever come about? I have looked at the product page for M-3 s but did not see this feature mentioned.
thanks,
Jeff
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310
devotee
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devotee
Joined: May 2010
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this brings about a good question, why is it so important to have tweeters that can be aimed? I was under the impression that with so much emphasis I keep hearing about "pinpoint accuracy" with ATMOS, why are the ceiling mounted speakers simply straight down and with the ATMOS mix, they just don't pan across each other and move as needed to convey say a helicopter moving across the ceiling area.
is this something that dolby said is a requirement or is it just something that people are saying they prefer? I've not seen it mentioned at the dolby site so, I'm just wondering. I mean, for the most part, with the exception of the traditional placement of the front L & R and height for tweeters with them, most folks don't "aim" tweeters per say.
I'm just wondering, not challenging anyone about it before some of you get started, I'm just trying to understand the importance of it.
SonySXRD55"
Marantz AV7702MKII pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593 Likes: 1
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2014
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All channels should be aimed with consideration for the center of the soundfield. This ensures people sitting off axis dont get all of one speaker and not the others. It is possible to create a realistic and centered soundfield for all listeners if this approach is used. Here is a vid that explains the details. Its kind of old now, but still very relevant. Acoustics for immersive audio. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbqJkjfABQ
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021 Likes: 1
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021 Likes: 1 |
I recall Dolby stating straight down in the early anouncements, then it seemed to get twisted and I don't recall Dolby ever correcting the aimers in the crowd.
The sounds are being passed from speaker to speaker through the sound field.
IMO you wouldnt want aimed speakers for this specific application.
Last edited by brwsaw; 01/01/16 04:14 AM.
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021 Likes: 1
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,021 Likes: 1 |
From April's HT guide...
"If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position."
Last edited by brwsaw; 01/01/16 04:33 AM.
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310
devotee
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devotee
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310 |
All channels should be aimed with consideration for the center of the soundfield. This ensures people sitting off axis dont get all of one speaker and not the others. It is possible to create a realistic and centered soundfield for all listeners if this approach is used. Here is a vid that explains the details. Its kind of old now, but still very relevant. Acoustics for immersive audio. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbqJkjfABQ what I like about this guy as a professional installer of ATMOS systems is that they use methods outside of what some say is written in Dolby stone for their clients and they love it. they use many bi-pole speakers in their setups depending on the size of the rooms. they have at times used bi-omini pole speakers on the ceilings. they base everything on the room. they say the proper mix of those types of speakers really fills the room in certain areas that makes for great atmosphere (see what I did there!  ) they do follow a lot of Dolby ATMOS cannon as well. gives me hope for what I plan to do and how I now feel sooooooooo much better about keeping my QS8's in the mix. that was a very good and very informative video with a lot of thinking in and out of the box. thanks for posting it.
SonySXRD55"
Marantz AV7702MKII pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422 |
Yeah, Anthony Grimani knows his stuff.
The whole idea of the aimable tweeter came up because there was no hard number on the dispersion of the in-ceiling M3, and elsewhere it mentioned that if you don't have a wide dispersion overhead speaker, that you need to angle the speaker towards the listening area. Well, since that would mean a much more complex M3 housing design to be able to angle the entire speaker (woofer and tweeter) it was mentioned that being able to aim the tweeter (where most of the frequencies that are easily "locatable" to human ears comes from) would be a positive step. Also, if you have lower ceilings, it was determined by others that had done testing on it that if you had a lower that recommended ceiling, you would put the speakers further away (further in front, or behind, and further out to the sides if possible) to allow the speaker to disperse the sound more, but then you would have to be able to point the speaker towards the whole listening area. So you are using speaker aiming-ability to compensate for the lower ceiling by pushing the speakers further away (like if you had a taller ceiling).
So in an ideal situation (correct ceiling height and correct speaker dispersion), you would want the speakers pointing straight down as spec'd by Dolby. It is when you are trying to overcome some limitation that things get a bit "wonky."
On a particular DIY speaker site, a very popular ceiling speaker option for Atmos is an on-ceiling (basically an on-wall speaker) that it's cabinet comes with an angled option (as well as a regular box that they call their "Atmos" box). I don't know what the dispersion is for the coaxial speakers that they use, but they offer both options specifically for Atmos due to demand (their words, not mine).
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310
devotee
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devotee
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 310 |
Yeah, Anthony Grimani knows his stuff.
The whole idea of the aimable tweeter came up because there was no hard number on the dispersion of the in-ceiling M3, and elsewhere it mentioned that if you don't have a wide dispersion overhead speaker, that you need to angle the speaker towards the listening area. Well, since that would mean a much more complex M3 housing design to be able to angle the entire speaker (woofer and tweeter) it was mentioned that being able to aim the tweeter (where most of the frequencies that are easily "locatable" to human ears comes from) would be a positive step. Also, if you have lower ceilings, it was determined by others that had done testing on it that if you had a lower that recommended ceiling, you would put the speakers further away (further in front, or behind, and further out to the sides if possible) to allow the speaker to disperse the sound more, but then you would have to be able to point the speaker towards the whole listening area. So you are using speaker aiming-ability to compensate for the lower ceiling by pushing the speakers further away (like if you had a taller ceiling).
So in an ideal situation (correct ceiling height and correct speaker dispersion), you would want the speakers pointing straight down as spec'd by Dolby. It is when you are trying to overcome some limitation that things get a bit "wonky."
On a particular DIY speaker site, a very popular ceiling speaker option for Atmos is an on-ceiling (basically an on-wall speaker) that it's cabinet comes with an angled option (as well as a regular box that they call their "Atmos" box). I don't know what the dispersion is for the coaxial speakers that they use, but they offer both options specifically for Atmos due to demand (their words, not mine).
you mean something like this one coming out from SVS?
SonySXRD55"
Marantz AV7702MKII pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93
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