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#411026 - 03/23/15 04:12 PM A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ???
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1317
Hi everyone - please allow a brief introduction, or re-introduction, to the Axiom forum. It's pretty cool seeing a lot of the same faces here that were present back when I was doing reviews.

Some of you may already know this, so pardon my boring "catch up" stuff ... from 2001 until 2010, I did a series of on line reviews, with a different twist. The reviews were always of competing products, with a fairly lengthy process, and a lot of input from various forum members.

Over the past 4 years, I have attempted to make a "go" at manufacturing and selling home theater products as "Chase Home Theater". My hope with this little company was to give my brother something special on which to hang his hat as the manufacturing side of the equation. As it turned out, he was not as interested as I hoped, and the company ceased operations in November, 2014.

Full disclosure time - we still have a small amount of inventory to sell off .. about 40 subs, 140 speakers and some hefty power amps. This "sell off" is being facilitated at Home Theater Shack, and if anyone looked at the products and pricing, one would quickly see we are not selling gear in which the Axiom buyer would be interested.

Now that we have the intro done .... to review process, which is also going to take place at Home Theater Shack ...

I will be starting the reviews just as they were previously done - they will be purchased, set up in our system at home, and compared to competing products. The process will include pretty straight forward language about the strengths and weaknesses of each product, with the usual caveat that these are merely opinions, although hopefully useful opinions.

I am posting here for two reasons ...

1. Ian was the first manufacturer to respond to emails sent that this review process was getting "kicked off" again. As he knows we do a lot of blind listening tests, and as Ian also is pretty relaxed about this stuff, he was enthusiastic.

2. I would like input from the forum regarding speakers to be tested - not only Axiom speakers, but also those of the competition.

We are considering everything from M50, M60, M80, M100, LFR660, LFR880 and LFR1100 in the Axiom range.

For competitors, we will look at PSB, Paradigm, Ascend, Martin Logan ... The floor is yours to chime in with ideas of speakers you might like to see compared, including from companies not mentioned here.

I do this because it's a lot of fun. To those who have participated in these events in the past, hopefully you will join in again.

No one expects this to be some sort of "tell you what to buy" scenario. What we want to accomplish is to show, in real world systems, some ideas on how to get great sound for the $$$.

To this end, we even keep a variety of receivers and amps on hand - right now, we have NAD (317 integrated), McIntosh (MA-6900 amp), Marantz (7008 receiver) and even an entry level Denon 1712 receiver (an entry level receiver, imo, is essential to this process - too many companies test entry level speakers with multi buck amps, and all too often, these entry level speakers fail big time with the type of electronics normally used with them).

We may even add an Axiom amp to the mix, along with a dedicated pre-amp processor for higher end stuff.

This first test will strictly be two channel, and tower speakers.

If you have read this far, thank you, and if there are any suggestions, fire away!
_________________________
Audio - Because it's way cheaper than any other vice I know

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#411029 - 03/23/15 05:10 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: craigsub]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7380
Loc: Canada
Very cool that you are back to doing reviews.

What Paradigms would you compare the M80 to? It used to be that the M80 was a bargain compared to the Studio 100 and they were often compared. It looks like the Studio 100 has become less expensive relatively (the same price it was 10 years ago?) and the M80 has crept up in price. Maybe the Prestige 95F?

On paper, the M80 appears to have better bass extension than anything in the Paragigm line except the Signature S8

Things change.
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#411030 - 03/23/15 05:14 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: fredk]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1317
Fred - Good to see you again! The Studio 100's are listed at $1799 each on Paradigm's site, while the Prestige 95F's are listed at $2499 each.

SO ... $3598 for the pair of Studio 100's or $4998 for the pair of Prestige 95F's.

Both are under consideration. Good call!
_________________________
Audio - Because it's way cheaper than any other vice I know

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#411033 - 03/23/15 06:01 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: craigsub]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1168
One thing that has always bothered me about multi product reviews at many websites & magazines is the juvenile 'Shootout Format' where units are tested in a competition to the death. It seems that there has to be a winner & a bunch of losers.

Because speakers are such a subjective preference, I can't see how shootouts are valid at all. The 'winner' will not necessarily be a 'winner' to me or many others. Rating products in that manner is really irrelevant to me whether it is speakers, automobiles or whatever.

This type of extensive test over at HTS being done by a panel of testers with no numerical ratings/standings in the end is just about ideal, IMO:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/h...tion-event.html

TAM

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#411035 - 03/23/15 06:10 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: craigsub]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7380
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: craigsub
Fred - Good to see you again! The Studio 100's are listed at $1799 each on Paradigm's site, while the Prestige 95F's are listed at $2499 each.

SO ... $3598 for the pair of Studio 100's or $4998 for the pair of Prestige 95F's.

Both are under consideration. Good call!

Hah, I missed that. That begs the question, are a pair of M80s better than one Studio 100? Axiom ftw. No testing required. grin
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#411038 - 03/23/15 06:35 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: exlabdriver]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1317
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
One thing that has always bothered me about multi product reviews at many websites & magazines is the juvenile 'Shootout Format' where units are tested in a competition to the death. It seems that there has to be a winner & a bunch of losers.

Because speakers are such a subjective preference, I can't see how shootouts are valid at all. The 'winner' will not necessarily be a 'winner' to me or many others. Rating products in that manner is really irrelevant to me whether it is speakers, automobiles or whatever.

This type of extensive test over at HTS being done by a panel of testers with no numerical ratings/standings in the end is just about ideal, IMO:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/h...tion-event.html

TAM


TAM - I prefer that type of a process as well. A lot of people want a "number" assigned, which I have attempted to be a sport and try the "numbered" approach, and it tends to end up with people fighting over the numbered results.

The "worst" of these was a GTG at our place in 2007. We had about 15 people, all listening blind, all posting notes and tallying scores before we revealed the speakers in question.

Where this testing will be different than the current review on HTS is this process will not be over a couple of days - it will be over a period of months.

Discussion will he had about things like true, in room, comparative efficiency of several pairs of speakers, using, say, pink noise at the same volume setting on a receiver.

For an example, let's say one pair of speakers managed 88 dB at the listening position, and the next only 82 dB using the same volume setting, we know that the first speakers would have appx. the same SPL with a good 50 watt amp as would the second with a 200 watt amp.

THAT is useful information - as most budget (think $600) receivers will deliver 50 watts per channel with 5 channels driven.
_________________________
Audio - Because it's way cheaper than any other vice I know

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#411039 - 03/23/15 06:42 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: craigsub]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1168
Sounds good.

BTW, there is an interesting, ongoing thread at HTS ref an AMP Test that a bunch of them just participated in. Brand/model evaluations are starting to trickle in:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/h...ion-thread.html

TAM

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#411040 - 03/23/15 06:53 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: exlabdriver]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1317
I have been following that thread. Looking forward to reading more.

And while the purpose of this thread is to get ideas from as many people as possible in regards to different speakers to test, one that is of interest is doing some $1000 towers - M50, SVS Prime, Home Theatre Direct Level 3 Floor Standers ...

This seems to be a market without a lot of "love". Since one does not need to purchase stands with these speakers, the relative affordability against bookshelf speakers is enhanced.

This also hits that magic "$2500" for a 5.1 channel system price point as well.
_________________________
Audio - Because it's way cheaper than any other vice I know

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#411044 - 03/23/15 07:59 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: craigsub]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11385
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: craigsub
For competitors, we will look at PSB, Paradigm, Ascend, Martin Logan ... The floor is yours to chime in with ideas of speakers you might like to see compared, including from companies not mentioned here.


It'll be great to read your thoughtful posts again. It's appreciated!

I'm really curious about the Devialet speakers that are getting a lot of press. I don't really have the budget or space for that kind of setup, but it's an intriguing product line nonetheless. One thing I'm wondering is why anyone would go for the normal Phantom over the Silver when the price difference isn't huge.

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#411046 - 03/23/15 10:06 PM Re: A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ??? [Re: CV]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1317
CV ... Those are in some rarified air for prices.

The LFR1100's are intriguing ... can they really compete with $5000 per pair loudspeakers like the Golden Ear Triton Ones?

That would be a heck of a test.
_________________________
Audio - Because it's way cheaper than any other vice I know

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