Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners No sub to EP500 results.

I am not sure what your conclusion ware there? Are you saying that an M22 with a decent sub is far better than an M80?? I would tend to agree with you there.

The real question is:

What is better: M22 with a Sub or M80 with a Sub or M100 with a Sub?

Or to they work out to being about the same as the decent sub takes over all the 200hz and lower frequencies making the M80 and M100 lower frequencies rather redundant?

Or does the decent sub supplement the lower frequencies of these larger speakers and give you something more than a decent sub alone can give for the 200hz and below.

I should have been more clear. In my room, for music, an M80v2 pair without a sub is substantially better than an M22v2 pair with an EP600v2. Sub or no sub, the M22v2 sounded too thin and lacked presence compared to the M80v2. For movies, I could live with the M22 with a sub because I am less fussy about audio quality when it comes to movies.

I can't speak for the M100 because I've never heard it. However, my M80v2 pair, at any practical volume, is far better with my EP600v2 (and other subs I've tried) than without.

I'm sure glad that I can buy stuff & on the most part be most happy with my purchases. This continual 'second guessing' & 'buyers' remorse' syndrome thankfully just isn't part of my makeup.

Striving for the next few of percent of performance is not only expensive but becomes a frustrating exercise in 'diminishing returns' as the small so-called 'improvement' is often not realized or hardly audible.

I see it all the time in the posts of others in the various forums that I frequent where a supposed 'upgrade' really hasn't happened to their satisfaction - on it goes again & again. I get tired just thinking about it, ha!!

BTW - as I've stated numerous times, my M22V4s & twin EP-800V3s are superb for both music & HT. I feel absolutely no need for towers of any kind...

TAM

That's right...be happy with what you've got. Don't you dare move M80s into that room because then you'll get upgraditis :-).

Old age cures one from ever wanting to unnecessarily move heavy items - especially to other rooms.

My EP-800s (110 Lbs each) are sitting right where we (my wife & I) originally placed them. They work just fine where they are, flanking the M22s & screen...

TAM

Wise words from TAM. "Post-Consumer Anxiety" is the phrase my wife has coined. Sadly, I'm sometimes afflicted.

Ha!! That's great!

Another 'syndrome' that our governments will dream up to establish more social programs to help the 'afflicted' & 'most vulnerable'...

TAM

I found all this out back in the day when I use to buy speakers from a dealer. I have always recommended to the potential buyer that if they insist on buying from a retailer, make sure that prior to committing to the purchase they can try them out at home in their set-up. If the retailer doesn't allow it, move on.

I don't know how many times in the past that I listened to speakers in the store thinking that these would be an upgrade only to find out when I listened to them in my environment ultimately determining they really weren't much of an upgrade, returning them and thinking my existing set-up was pretty good after all!

Matt -- I understand & sympathize with your comments. I don't think your mind will be settled until you hear this for yourself. If you are within a short day-trip of Dwight, and if Ian & Co. are indeed willing to host you, then you should just go. it is geographic luxury & you should take advantage.

Obviously, it is good to solicit opinions. Craig will have some good things to say & has already been clear that the ep800 (not so dissimilar from a stacked ep500 pair) elevates his m100s (not so dissimilar from your LFRs) into a new territory. The other side of the coin is the question of whether a full range tower is overkill when a sub is integrated. There are apparently conflicting suggestions from reliable first-person experiences here. My thought is that they are probably both right, and that the statements are more complementary than contradictory. Neils Bohr said "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." Acoustics is not so different from quantum mechanics, as it turns out. I don't have a shred of doubt that TAM's setup with the m22's and ep800s sounds phenomenal ... and I don't mean "to him" or "until you experience something else" or any other caveat or disqualifier whatsoever. I also accept Mojo's experience that a (near) full range tower is not necessarily equivalent in all regards to a bookshelf plus sub (and likewise that a sub enhances the tower as well). Its just hard to make decisions with limited and second-hand information, even from reliable sources. So, if you can readily go to Dwight, do that! Or, do what the rest of us have to do, which is make the best call we can based on product stats and first-hand suggestions and our own biases and preferences (both logical and illogical, with regards to perceptions of performance, aesthetics, budget, design philosophy, practicalities of the space, etc. etc.) and then evaluate in your own setting later.

My personal advice on your LFRs: Don't look back. The omnipolar design and the associated technology & engineering of the DSP is what you paid for there. Out of my range, but I don't question that it is a phenomenal system with its own benefits. You have raved about the sound already, and they are paid for, so stick with that as a constant. The subwoofer question is separate. There are some advantages to the Axiom subs that are seldom discussed. The analog toroidal power supply is a big one. They were also one of the first, if I understand correctly, to do a DSP implementation. I have great confidence in the engineering experience that Ian and Andrew bring to the table, and am fully persuaded that they make independent, educated, information-based design decisions. Craig's praise of ep800 should not be taken lightly. I'll be following your conclusions with interest.

I'm very much at peace with my own m80+ep500 decision, to the extent that any decision can be made prior to direct experience. I am looking forward to some real listening soon ... at some level, nothing up to that point really matters. After that, perhaps I can add less speculation, and more informed comments.

enjoy!

"I am looking forward to some real listening soon ... at some level, nothing up to that point really matters."

Oh come on! You of all people know that nothing really matters because there is no matter. The experience you call "real listening" is nothing of the sort and will get you no closer to reality. Give it up! You, like me, are nothing but Hermitian conjugates acting on the Fock space.