Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Vp 180 center

The more you listen critically the better you get at it, and yes, there is such a thing as break in. Cue gasps.

Yeah skins, we can never underestimate the ability of our ears, or more specifically mind, to play tricks on us. Any permanent speaker break-in occurs in a matter of seconds, probably during testing at the factory.

Despite lack of hard evidence to support an audible change, this stuff continues to float around. Perhaps the wit who remarked that "Break-in was invented so that we couldn't return anything!" had it right.

I still recall the first time i bought and heard the Axiom M22s vs. my 8 year old Technics setup.
I really thought the M22s sounded thin from my very first impression and i didn't like it at all. After a bit of listening and slow, painful switching of speakers, i observed that the M22s sounded alot more clear, accurate compared to the Technics. However i did still feel they sounded thin and that impression never changed through the 30 day home try out period. If there was to be speaker break-in, should i not have heard some change in this quality?
There was no speaker break-in re: their "thin" sound. It was a more likely conclusion that i was just so used to my more bass heavy Technics sound it has long been my standard for what sounds good.

I contemplated whether i may just prefer more bass in my sound, or perhaps i wanted bigger, more room filling sound (which heavy bass can 'feel' like it accomplishes) and as such, i ordered the M60s instead and sent the M22s back. The M60s had the extra bass, room filling sound i was sort of expecting and the clarity was incredible. Clarity of the M22 but a more full sound. It's a bigger full size speaker. This physically just makes sense.

In this instance, i was so used to my 'reference' sound being more bassy or "full" and to recreate that experience, i needed an overly bassy bookshelf speaker (which does not define the M22s), or a subwoofer addition OR just a larger speaker with larger bass drivers.
I opted for the third choice.

The one thing i had long noted about the M60 bass vs. my old Technics is that it wasn't a bloated bass. My Technics would play a bass note and it wasn't well defined. The Axiom bass sounded accurate and precise, but yet just as 'loud' and room filling.
My opinion on the M60 hasn't changed since the day i bought them almost 13 years ago. They still sound the same as i wrote on my original notes. Should that not have changed as well? Especially after 13 years?
Should my speakers not be breaking down continuously over time if they also take 50 or 100 hours to break in? We are after all talking about driver units that move at several thousand cycles per second. Would they not break in within a few seconds of testing at the manufacturer?
I mean geez. I installed a new backdoor on our house and the door was a bit sticky. After 3 or 4 door openings the grooves made along the door jamb didn't continue to increase (and no it wasn't sticking enough to bother getting out the planer). If i could open and close my backdoor 1000 times per second, how many seconds would it take for my door to 'break in'?
It has moving parts just like a speaker. Back and forth. Back and forth.

Speaker break in?
Bah nonsense.

I beg to differ. Speakers obviously become wore out after time (and I am not talking foam rot). So yes they do change their timbre over time. The question is "break in" to what? A timbre that is the listener's preference I would presume. That is a vast difference, and measured over a large amount of time for the average AV user.

I say this from a musician aspect. I had a cabinet loaded with pre-Rola Celestion greenbacks. I played through that cab pretty much 6-8 hrs a day for years. The timbre of those speakers did change over that time (as measured by IR measurements)

I have heard speakers on two seperate occasions out of box set up next to speakers months old and there was a night and day difference. The models were tested at the store then again at my home. Same result. I was arguing with a dealer just as you guys are and he shut me up good. The older speakers were smoother sounding and had no harshness in the treble vs out of the box new performance.

I added a set of the same towers to my ht setup. When the speakers were compared, there was no listening to the new ones till they had ran in over 48 hours or so at moderate levels. I would listen to them once a day for a couple minutes and knew they werent done yet. This may not exhibit in all speakers, but you would have to be in a horrible space or near deaf not to realise the difference in the ones I heard. I added bookshelves later, same tweeter/drivers, same pattern. I should mention in the dealer tests and in my old theater there was controlled first reflections and a low RT60 time.

The return policy breakin conspiracy is what a crank would claim was the case! ::throws chum to the sharks::

Love to hear craigsub's opinion on this. I recall he breaks in his speakers before any critical listening.

Perhaps this would be an interesting blind test for Craig or someone to try out...brand new speakers vs "broken in". As long as they have no updates on the newer speaker, obviously, and they are identical in every way except the hours on them prior to testing.

Speakers would also have to be placed in same position which would require a little extra effort( moving both sets in between)
I believe in break in for the record......I also believe it may or may not be audible in different speakers
Example my 8 year old velodyne subwoofer sounded flat, no punch over the first 2 weeks of use( about 30 hrs of music listening, about 2 hrs a night)
It sounded so bad I was planning on returning it before 30 day trial was up,and then all of sudden I came home from work and put one of the disc I've been listening too through demo and BAM there it is punchy ,tight ,in your chest bass....WOW
Not subtle ,huge difference
So unless a mouse was residing in there from the factory and got fed up with the noise (2 hrs a night ) and while was at work ,deciding he was packin his shit up and movin out (unblocking port maybe?) something drastically changed...........not subtle

This would be an extremely easy test for craigsub. Just set up one each M50/100/prime tower and leave the others for a week or so. Run the speakers 24/7 in the basement away from yourself. Then listen to the out of box vs ran in after. Would be excited and validated to hear his results! . He's buying them anyway. For science! Lol. They wouldn't necessarily need to be set in the same spot either. Differences should be noticed readily enough without that level of precision in my (narrow) experience.

Suggested tracks:

Man in mirror- Michael Jackson
Shes out of my life - Michael Jackson
Everything in its right place - Radiohead

Anything with sustained tones in the mid/treble range as my dealer showed me could highlight these differences. But once noticed, any material sounds unacceptable by comparison.

Guys - Here is a pretty interesting article on "break in" or "burn in" in regards to speakers.

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

There were measureable differences in the driver after "burn in". As have many others, I have heard speakers "break in" over a period of time. BUT ... when I tried a blind test a few years ago, using a matched pair of stereo speakers, one with 100 hours on it, the other fresh out of the box, in a blind test, I could not hear a difference.

It's a fun topic, and my only wish is that people would not make fun of others, no matter which direction one believes is "true".

[quote=craigsub]Guys - Here is a pretty interesting article on "break in" or "burn in" in regards to speakers.

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

There were measureable differences in the driver after "burn in". As have many others, I have heard speakers "break in" over a period of time. BUT ... when I tried a blind test a few years ago, using a matched pair of stereo speakers, one with 100 hours on it, the other fresh out of the box, in a blind test, I could not hear a difference.

So if there was measurable differences in this particular driver( after burn in ) that were not audible.....is it possible in another driver, larger? made of different material or surround ,that it may be audible?
Also would like to mention in most cases ( my experience) I was unable to hear a noticble difference
( no measuring instruments....other than my ears) and also truly believe in your ears( or mind) adjusting to new speakers as well
But that subwoofer was not my ears adjusting.....at least not that drastic ,that fast( hated it up to that point)