Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Ordering Receiver Today -- Any Last Advice?

Quick question. Does Marantz allow end user firmware upgrades these days?

That was a major PIA for me when I had the 8001.

hsb

On the same vein as casey01's post, I have taken the liberty of quoting a poster (sisserman) from AVS that I thought applied to our discussion:

This is an interesting post. Bias is a real killer, especially when you WANT something to be true.

Here is a good example. I purchased an Ayre DSD DAC, think I was 2-3 grand range... it wasn't cheap. I compared it to my "budget" AudioLab Mdac (500 bucks on AG).

I initially posted a review of how wonderful this new DAC was... open, detailed..... blah blah. I used a McIntosh MHA100 headphone amp and Sennheiser HD 800 cans, so no way am I'm missing detail or resolution (well not much).

When the excitement cleared I did a blind AB test.... couldn't tell the two DACs apart.... it was almost impossible. I had a fellow audiophile come over for beers and cigars.... he couldn't tell either.... Moved the DACs to the theater and played them through the VR 33 towers.... still couldn't tell a difference.

I think you get to a certain level of quality and it's difference are slight, especially digital. Now this is my personal experience. I know there will be replies telling me my hearing sucks, my wife tells me all the time.... I actually hear pretty well, just selectively.

I sold the Ayre!!! Blasphemy I know. Still worry I missed something.. maybe I should have kept it... That's how powerful bias is.

I gave his post a 'Like'...

TAM

Fill your boots. There are measurable and audible differences in this test. I really do think that special circumstances and special rooms come into play. But if you're a 1%'er and employ an acoustical approach in addition to quality amplification, you are not wasting your time.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/h...ion-thread.html

If I have to try that hard to hear the difference then I am not interested. I get lots of pleasure from my music even when played on less than audiophile quality equipment . I am not really into dick measuring contest's either, don't need to drive a big diesel to know my self worth.

Craig -- Thanks & no worries. I know you raved about the SR7008 into your m100s, which was encouraging. Of course, that's two channels, not 9, but still. I'll be interested to hear if you feel that the m100s open up in a new way with outboard amplification, which I believe is part of your planned testing. At some point I'll want to do something like the Outlaw 2200 monoblocks on the LCR, but I get the impression this will be a great start.

Hansang -- the receiver will be networked, and it appears that firmware updates are offered automatically in this context. Is there more to your question?

TAM -- great story. Here's a couple more quotes for you. Take them to apply to my search for a receiver if nothing else!




Side question: Any chance of some insight into your user name? I've been wondering for a while. Used to run sleds in the Yukon? Used to manage a research facility? Used to work at a kennel with chauffeur valet service?

Serenity -- Thanks for the link. Haven't digested it yet, but looks interesting. Interesting takeaway here in post 40 from Sonnie:


Seems like a reasonable zeroth order approximation to the answer. There are real reasons for wanting dynamic headroom, and substantial power reserves, but within the regime of clean power, and when peaks are not being clipped, there will be many more similarities than differences. This is probably where I'm at. And, it is in keeping with my intended upgrade path: Modestly priced monoblocks that offer very substantive improvements in power capacity, and the ability to run hot into low impedance loads while keeping the THD distortion down. And they're balanced (at least on the inputs) to boot.

That opinion is not taking into account tube amps, etc., which are *supposed* to color the sound to some degree, and therefore seem to fall into the regime of personal preferences with regards to desirability of the particular sonic impact. BTW, in my guitar rack, there is a Mesa-Boogie tube preamp feeding a Marshall tube power amp. There is nothing in the world that sounds like a high end tube amp for guitar, other than the real thing. The tone churns and chugs, and glistens -- its alive. But, for electric guitar, the amp is *part of the instrument*, not intended as just a passive mechanism for adjusting the volume level.

Socket -- was that supposed to be a crack at my Avatar?

I have a Yaqin Integrated Tube Amp for my M2 + 2 X EP400 'Audio Only, SACD System' that doesn't impart any distortion that I can discern at normal listening levels - 85 to 90 DB at my MPL:



Last year I bought a whole compliment of new tubes for it to use when the OEM tubes finally give out. I used them for a month until their warranty was up & then put them into storage. According to the fanatics on the various 'Tube Forums', I should have heard a dramatic difference in changing out even one tube let alone the whole bunch; however, there was no difference that I could tell. That exercise reaffirmed to me that I'm not able to discern any appreciable difference in sound except for speakers. That amp also replaced a SS Sony basic 2CH Receiver & again, except for some initial placebo euphoria, no significant difference to me as well.

As for my 'exlabdriver' user name. I'm a retired RCAF Pilot who flew the mighty Boeing 'Labrador' Helicopter in the Search & Rescue role for over 3 decades. Here is a pic of yours truly training over a crash response boat locally in the waters off of Vancouver Island (where I reside now). I'm safely in the cockpit:



And another one of yours truly again in action off the north end of Vancouver Island over cruise ship heading for Alaska:



Seems so long ago, ha!

TAM

TAM -- Very interesting. Looks like a beautiful amp. I knew you had a tube amp in your music setup. I am intrigued that you report it also sounds identical (after the honeymoon) to the solid state amp. With a tube guitar amp, the whole point is clipping (intentionally), but they do so with harmonically pleasing overtones. My impression with the tube amps in stereo setups had been that they would likewise actively impart some discernible sonic character onto the music -- this effect might then either be deemed pleasing or extraneous, according to taste of the listener, but it wouldn't generally really be a neutral amplification. However, your experience seems to be, again, that it is a subtle distinction when kept away from clipping. With the guitar amps, the distinction from SS is textural, and not subtle at all, but they really are clipping in the extreme, and on purpose.

Thanks so much for sharing the background of your name & the pics. Terribly impressed. I'll bet you have some stories to tell!

Cheers -
DSQ

I believe that keeping my tube amp within reasonable limits volume wise, distortion is kept at bay. What really makes my 35 W/Ch system shine is of course the 2 X 500 W/Ch that the EP400s provide for a total of 1070 Watts. Quite respectable & more than adequate for my listening space. My tube amp doesn't have to work very hard to make decent SPLs so it sounds very clean.

With guitar tube amps, driving them into distortion with the various controls is what makes electric guitars so special. That's why I like electric blues so much.

I used to have lots of stories but I've forgotten them due to old age, ha!!!

TAM

I skimmed the entire thread and am thoroughly dissapointed. I dont think the whole story is being told with the test. The results are being witheld for some reason. Sonnie usually spearheads these writeups and he bailed very early on in the thread. Other members in the test group have hinted they had "preference" for certain amps, but will not say which.

I may have been skimming too quickly, but that thread was a whole lot of nothing going on in the end....

I found exactly the same thing.

'Inconclusive' is the way that I see it...

TAM