Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 11 of 25 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 24 25
Re: Da big smoke!
Wid #413831 08/01/15 02:37 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Originally Posted By Wid

I never cook at real low temps, for me it's 240 or 250 for most things except poultry.

The lowest i've tried was 215F but it just takes too long to cook. 225F is my bottom now but 250F is usually my target as well.

Quote:
I never use a meat probe and really don't find it all the necessary. After a while you get a pretty good idea when things are getting done by feel or just using a meat therm like the thermapen.

It is not possible to know by touch when any meat is hitting its proper temperature regardless of what people say.
A thermopen IS a probe. I just leave ours in the meat full time so i don't have to keep opening the lid.

Quote:

It was told to me that inserting a probe before the out side of the meat hits 140 degree could introduce bacteria into the inside of the meat. Then with large muscle meat you run the risk of not getting out of the danger zone (40 to 140) in enough time (4 hours).

Nonsense. Unless you have a horribly unclean probe with pork blood on it a few days old and ripe, and even then...

Quote:

I agree taking the shoulder to 195 then letting it rest.

I've read anything between 195 and 200F but i tried both and didn't find any difference in tenderness or doneness.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Da big smoke!
Wid #413835 08/01/15 03:21 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Originally Posted By Wid

I got the PID controller in a week or so ago and had a chance to use it a couple of times. First time out the smoker temps were all over the place. It was +/-30 degree or better. It was driving me nuts wondering what was going wrong. Needless to say I was not a happy camper first time out.

Today I started the smoker at about noon. Loaded it up with charcoal as usual but instead of pouring the hot coals through out it was placed in one spot right by the fan. I set the target temp at 240 but waited to start the controller till it was around 180 or so. At first it over shot the temp by 5 degree then settled in right at the target temp. There was some fluctuation but it was only +/- 2 degree. To say I was happy about that was an understatement.

Decided to throw on a whole chicken so I upped the temp to 280. Once again it over shot by 5 degrees and settled back down to 280 and only fluctuated the same few degrees.

I can see this being a winner if this is this last time is typical of how well it runs.

I would rather expect this behaviour Wid.
It is not a controlled oven where minor adjustments to electrical flow can be made. The controller needs to blow air into the chamber to increase the burn rate and then upon feedback of hitting a temp, it slows the air flow. That won't reduce the temps right away though. The overburn from the initial air flow takes time for the oxygen to deplete before falling back and the cooker then takes time to cool off.
Based on my experience with the BigEgg, i have overshot temps and it took a minute or two for the temp to start dropping back once i close down the vents. It could take upwards of 5 to 10 minutes to bring temps down from 450F to say 375 or 400 because the Egg holds its temp so well.

I wouldn't expect those PIDs to maintain a perfect oven precision temperature, but at least more accurate than a human having to check the temp and fiddle with dampers every 10 minutes until the unit settles.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Da big smoke!
chesseroo #413837 08/01/15 05:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
W
Wid Offline
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
W
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833

Quote:
Nonsense. Unless you have a horribly unclean probe with pork blood on it a few days old and ripe, and even then...


It is not bacteria on the probe but bacteria on the surface of the meat that is being pushed into the meat. Read through the BBQ forums and you we see reference to it.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Da big smoke!
Wid #413842 08/01/15 06:32 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Originally Posted By Wid

It is not bacteria on the probe but bacteria on the surface of the meat that is being pushed into the meat. Read through the BBQ forums and you we see reference to it.

I prefer to look at science resources for information regarding risks of cooking and methods and avoid repeating what people believe is "common knowledge" touted on forums re: health and science issues. That being said, i'm going to post some science links about that subject ON THESE FORUMS!
grin

What i know of microbiology and innoculation of media provides me with a fairly high certainty that this is not a problem. If anyone got sick from such an occurrence, it is likely more probable causes were not ruled out.

For example, one has to assume that surface bacteria is in sufficient quantity such that a pen tip sized probe can 'push' enough into the centre of the meat such that a person will ingest a quantity sufficient to cause sickness. Animals are capable of withstanding the ingestion of various amounts of bacteria before it makes one feel sick.

Second, the surface of the meat cooks faster than the inside, so killing of surface bacteria has already begun by the time anyone would put a probe into the meat.

Third, what "surface" bacteria are we talking about?
The bacteria most common to beef and chicken are found INSIDE the meat, not just on the surface. Hence, unless someone left their meat out on a counter for two days and something else started to grow, then these poisonings have zero to do with a probe insertion. If something else did grow, then that has little to do with the probe vs. poor food handling.

There are three primary reasons why meat products are cooked to certain temps. Knowing how/why these contaminants become factors in human health will provide any food preparer the knowledge that they need to prepare food safely.

Chicken - Salmonella (all types)
Beef - E.coli (only for processed products)
Pork - Trichinosis

Resources for why people get sick from these factors can be found anywhere, but many myths abound. The bbq forums are NOT good places to confirm facts. I won't go through all three, but can at least focus on pork as one example.

The very reason why people have long been told to cook pork thoroughly have been alleviated with scientific study yet many people still follow the 'old' "common knowledge" to cook pork past pink, min. 160F, etc. (Note that the 160F standard is still the guideline in Canada but the US has lowered theirs as of a few years ago).
Trichinosis are killed in less than 1 min at 140F, and are killed under freezing temperatures (USDA fact sheet).
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/trichinae/docs/fact_sheet.htm
Similar info is posted at the CDC site with more on wild game meats.
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/prevent.html

As such, any pork you had frozen for a day before eating, you don't have to worry about eating pink and contracting Trichinosis worms. Still, the cooking guideline says to cook to 140F. Using those TWO combined methods, along with the usual "keep your hands and prep surfaces clean", pretty much eliminates any chance of problems with pork unless the meat was bad to begin with. If the pork was left out for bacteria to grow, then even after freezing and cooking, bacterial toxins...Staphylococcus aureus produces a heat stable toxins may be left behind. It wouldn't matter if Staphylococcus only grew on the surface or got pushed into the meat with a probe. That has zero to do with the fact that the heat stable toxin being left behind on any part of the meat is the cause of the sickness. The primary cause is poor food handling and prep.

If i were to guess, i would think unwashed hands is likely one of the largest reasons how people contaminate their home meat during prep.

Here is an article from the CDC about stats on foodborne illnesses from 2011. Note how they actually recommend using a probe in meat to check temperatures.
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsFoodborneEstimates/






Last edited by chesseroo; 08/01/15 06:38 PM.

"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Question for the BBQ experts
fredk #413843 08/01/15 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
So the upcoming bbq menu is as follows:

Saturday
Grilled chicken breasts with creamy smoked harvarti
on
fresh homemade buns baked on the Big Green Egg!

Grilled Halloumi cheese

Sunday:
The Ribs 2-2-1 tryout

Buttered shrimp on skewers with a smoked chipotle mayo and lime dip


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Question for the BBQ experts
fredk #413847 08/01/15 06:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
E
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
IMO, phobias about your common, everyday bacteria are as irrational as phobias about spiders, ha...

TAM

Re: Question for the BBQ experts
fredk #413848 08/01/15 07:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Lot's of people recommend Soaking all meats in vinegar first then rinse and season as desired.

Re: Question for the BBQ experts
exlabdriver #413850 08/01/15 08:07 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Originally Posted By exlabdriver
IMO, phobias about your common, everyday bacteria are as irrational as phobias about spiders, ha...

TAM

That's the funny thing about E.coli.
We all have it in our own bodies in our digestion tracts yet swallowing it makes us sick!

(Yes there is more to the story).


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Question for the BBQ experts
brendo #413851 08/01/15 08:10 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Originally Posted By brendo
Lot's of people recommend Soaking all meats in vinegar first then rinse and season as desired.

At least the vinegar will begin to break down tissues and soften the meat.
If bacteria are already growing though, they can penetrate the tissues and toxins can still diffuse into the meat. You cannot soak rotting meat in vinegar and then assume all is well to eat.
Food prep (thawing properly) matters.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Question for the BBQ experts
fredk #413853 08/02/15 01:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Sorry I was assuming you guy are using fresh products as apposed to expired.

Page 11 of 25 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 24 25

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 136 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4