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#414213 - 08/22/15 01:24 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
I like that low end bump... and I can't say I don't like to be my college self once in a while, lol.

Anyone else have an opinion on this? HP or not HP for the M60s? Socketman - thank you for the advice - and he is right... I don't want to have buyer's remorse.

My 'loud' moments come when I sit on the deck outside of our living room... I like to turn the Marantz up to 60 or 65. I'd like to be able to do that with more bottom end oomph... and I also want a deeper/louder sound at lower volumes (deep and rich at lower volumes too). Would the M60 high power with the Marantz, or with an external Emotiva 2-channel amp, sound richer than the M60s with either of those options? If adding the external amp will make it that much deeper (bass) and richer, then perhaps I forego the HP version? Or is the difference only between the m60 and the sub/no sub question? I prefer not to add a sub. With my two-channel Sansui setup, I won't use an external amp (and don't think I can either). Ditto with my vintage Yamaha CR620, or my vintage Marantz 2230.

As you can see I have a tough time making decisions, lol... More thoughts appreciated (and thank you Socketman!).

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#414214 - 08/22/15 02:14 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
Mojo Offline
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7144
Axiom has never quantified the difference between standard and HP drivers. It's best you contact Axiom directly for advice.
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#414217 - 08/22/15 09:13 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Did ask, and got some good info... was just looking for some first-hand owner info, or info from experienced users, lol. Thanks!

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#414219 - 08/22/15 11:12 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
Mojo Offline
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7144
I can't speak for the M100 and LFRs because I have never heard them. For all other Axiom speakers, my advice to a sub-bass lover like you is, "Get a sub". In fact, anyone who can't keep their speakers well away from room boundaries and suffers from small spaces, is better off with a sub.

If you are against using a sub, the next best bet is to ask Axiom for an M60 graph that shows frequency linearity for various SPLs with and without HP drivers.
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BANNED & QUARANTINED
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#414222 - 08/23/15 02:06 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Thanks Mojo. Not sure if I love sub-bass... (I grew up in a pure stereo home in the 70s, and we loved the stereo sound we had). That's pretty much all I'm after. I'd like this pair of speakers to be "all they can be", to avoid a sub (for space reasons and WAF reasons)... So I think the HP would be best (but I will ask them for more details). Regarding the frequency linearity, is there something I should look for with the frequency? Probably a nice smooth line running fairly horizontal from the lower 35-40Hz frequencies, right across the spectrum?

Thanks again for all the input.

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#414224 - 08/23/15 10:46 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
Mojo Offline
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7144
If all you are after is the stereo sound you had in the 70s, you will be more than pleased with the standard M60s. They will knock your socks off!

Keep in mind though what I've said about bass management. No matter what speaker you get, even bookshelfs, bass management in any but the largest rooms becomes very tricky. It's easier to manage that bass when you have a sub. I have a 7.1 system with the M80v2 and an EP600v2 in a 5,000 cubic foot room and it took a lot of work to get the bass under control. The bass came together when I got an Onk with XT32. I can now say I am a very happy camper.

Right now I am tinkering with a 1900 cubic foot room that is open to the rest of the house. I want to use this for 2.0 and hopefully 2.1 one day (if I can get a sub out on the Axiom Air Gateway). I have a pair of bookshelves I had set up along the width (short dimension) of the room. Even though I had them many feet away from the room boundaries, the bass was terrible even with some room treatments I got from Serenity_Now. I had to knock them down by 4 dB at 100Hz to tame them. They still didn't sound right though. Without the room treatments it was so bad I couldn't listen to it. I decided to try something different. I set my room up so that the speakers were positioned along the length of the room. Bingo! Nirvana! In this configuration, the closest wall behind them is about 6 feet away because, as I said, the room is open to the rest of the house. They are also well away from the side walls.

My advice to you is to consider getting less speaker (like the standard M60) and put the rest of the money into room treatments.

Give Serenity_Now your room dimensions and he'll give you some computer output that tells you where you should put what treatments :-).
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#414242 - 08/24/15 02:27 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: Mojo]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
I have access to a subwoofer for my theatre system (in the same room), but I am likely running this system as a strict two channel with my vintage amps. I'm thinking I don't want to add an extra sub to the mix, so am wondering if I should spend the extra on the speakers (HP version), get a mini-sub to get the lower bass, add a power amp for two channel (then I can't use my vintage receivers with the speakers, I think).

Tough decision. My 1970s sound consisted of some Sansui SPX-6700s (13" woofers, and a 4-way design), or later on a set of Bose 301s. The Sansui set were not 'great' speakers by any stretch, but were able to go loud. I think when Dad bought them they were $800/pair at Kelly's Stereo World in Canada. For 13" they weren't 'sub-woofer style' bass, but they were pretty decent for bass. Would the M60s compete, or would I want to go to the HP version?

WAF being considered, she may not let me have two sets of speakers in the Living Room, meaning my vintage amps go to my office with small bookshelves (M3s), and I end up putting the M60s into my AV Surround system with a two-channel Emotiva, and then they will have a subwoofer to augment the lows. Chances are I will have the two sets of speakers in that room for some time.

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#414244 - 08/24/15 03:20 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Besides the carpet and drapes the wife won't allow any specific room treatments on walls... So... Might have to be the standard M60s with the two channel system anyways. Shame. I wanted a really nice set of speakers to run full out with my vintage amp collection. Thought the HP would be the case... However, it seems that the room factors would be greater than the actual speaker type (at least that's what I'm gathering from all the great responses I'm getting here)? Hmmm...

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#414245 - 08/24/15 03:25 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
Mojo Offline
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7144
Those Sansuis...my buddy has them and I listen to them every time I go over there. He also has Nuance, Bose, Polk and the new Pioneer bookshelves by Andrew Jones.

His Pioneers (see link below), blow those Sansuis away in every respect. The standard M60s are light years ahead. They not only blow the Sansuis away - they leave a worm hole at the site of destruction.

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22-LR-Designed-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers/dp/B008NCD2LG

Getting back to your vintage receiver predicament, this is why I've been petitioning Axiom to build a sub out on the Axiom Air Gateway. You, me and all my friends could benefit by bringing legacy gear into the 21st century.
_________________________
BANNED & QUARANTINED
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1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2

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#414255 - 08/25/15 11:25 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
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Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
But, the M60s should sound good with my vintage Sansui or Marantz units, right?

I've heard lots of good stuff about the Andrew Jones Pioneers... They're supposed to be discount speaker champions, or something like that. Worth having a pair for bedroom. Right now I'm swimming in bookshelf speakers: Polks, PSB Alphas (my favourite of the bunch), Sansuis (vintage sort-of bookshelf-sized ones), Energy Pro Series, Sound Dynamics, Realistic Minimus 7s, Bose...

But, back to the original question... Would I notice a difference between the 60s and the 60HPs? Do the HPs play much louder, or much deeper/lower bass? Or, is the effect so slight that room/placement factors end up being the bigger difference? Don't want to spend the extra money if I don't have to (can spend it on a nice clean amp or small sub if needed later), but can spend it if I need to/should.

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