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Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414550 09/18/15 08:23 PM
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Preliminary 2ch listening tests with fabric wall indicate if 2ch sound is important to you, a fabric wall isn't going to do you any favours. The wall is high quality speaker fabric from parts express. I'm not sure if it's the best you can buy, but it's priced that way! Lol.

Anyway, the effect is the phantom image is now not as tightly focused and liveley, like a singer on a stool. Now it sounds more like a recording. The image went from a tight surreal object, to an oblong blur. It still sounds good, but I'm already thinking of ways to unmake the screen wall and replace it so the side panels are behind the main channels. Or, and this is totally crazy, I have to start using the center channel as a fixed phantom, and listen to stereo with multichannel processing. Could be interestng. Jury is out and it hasn't even been a week.

A screen wall should be used knowing HT use is the priority.

Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414551 09/18/15 08:56 PM
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maybe you have the wrong speakers. smile JK


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M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414560 09/19/15 02:57 AM
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Ouch! laugh Wanna lend me some $. 7 m100s and 2 ep600s oughta do it!

If Axioms showed up at the door I would be shot. But don't think I havent been thinking of ways to get away with it.... grin

So, I think my whining about the screen wall shows how my listener bias and testing habits may be a little narrow in scope. Turns out the screen wall has only done wonders so far as the measurements show. The RT60 time has fallen to an overall average of 0.36 seconds. I think this is down from 0.42 or so. Acoustically transparent you say?! No way.

The mains and subs new meaured frequency response in room at the mlp is improved as well. Flatter response overall. Why? I would guess the speakers' toe in vs the screen wall is killing most off axis energy before it hits the walls and reflects to the mlp. This could also explain why the soundstage suddenly sounds different. The spatial cues have changed. Freaking acoustics, eh?


Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414561 09/19/15 03:17 AM
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Honestly its all about the acoustics. a bad room will ruin the best speakers made. I have moved more times than I care to recall and had the same speakers for 30 plus years and they sounded different every time I moved. Keep working at it, it takes time but the payoff is huge. I would look at rew and a minidsp module. My axioms with the XMC-1 with Dirac and a few wall treatments sound better than they have a right too.


Richard


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Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414562 09/19/15 03:45 AM
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smile The long way around gives me more to puzzle over. I'd love a minidsp, but that's cheating! laugh

Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414613 09/23/15 08:55 PM
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Gripe/advice for others.

If you have power amps around, or find a honey of a deal on one, ensure they have either remote control function or 12v trigger startup before planning your system around them. frown

I own 2 power amps without such features and have to frankenstein a work around to integrate them into my system so they turn on and off with the AVR. Its a long story, but in the end I'll have spent hours emailing, rs232 programming, reading manuals, and spending waay too much money to get stuff working I already own. I broke up a 5ch seperates amplifier system, only to find out the pieces talk to eachother and wont remain powered on as standalone components.

This wouldn't be a big deal if the language used was rs232 based (as their manual states) but alas, I have to buy a go between interface box that transcodes rs232 to their internal coding. And guess what, its arbitrarily expensive, proprietary, and my amps are bricks without it. (Of course). Cant even sell them as a working system without selling all the pieces together. Blurgh!

The many hoops to jump through in this hobby. laugh Should'a became a videophile. (Cause video calibration gear is always trouble free.... grin)

Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414675 09/26/15 08:53 PM
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Waiting for varathane to dry. Exciting things coming. (4 of them)

Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414679 09/27/15 01:18 AM
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4 troops awaiting marching orders.....


Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414692 09/27/15 04:36 PM
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Okay, this is gonna be a lot of pics. So 56K modem users beware laugh

The panels are completed and installed. It took a couple of weekends to get them made, but it was worth it in the end. They turned out fantastic and, more importantly, put me right in the zone for acoustic concerns. The rooms decay time is in the butter zone across all frequencies. The frequency response is smoother still, and the high frequencies came up a little while bass flattened a little.



It was a bit of a production to make the panels. Half the battle was deciding just what the heck to do. Put poly facing on the insulation, leave them be with fabric only, or use diffusion instead. I stuck with the tried and true broadband absorbers after starting a thread at AVS and getting a PM from Ethan Winer. (felt kinda special)

Anyhow, the basic crux of the build was the same ol' 3" Roxul Safe 'N Sound everyone uses, but I had to deal with the problem of integrating lighting into them..... hmmmm.

I didn't want to put any more holes into walls for anchors and the like, so I had to figure out how to mount them, and the lights to them somehow..... I came up with making frames around the insulation that would house an inner panel frame with a rough opening for an octagon extension ring. Since the panels were 3" thick, I used two 1 1/2" extension rings ganged up. The result was this:



I then had to perform minor surgery on my otherwise routine panels. The tablesaw made for a great exam table. grin Nurse, Scalpel! You can kinda see the wood runners that would sandwich along the top and bottom of the octagon extension rings, and serve to give a solid backing for the fixture to snug up to. Roxul cuts like cake.



The fixtures came with a mounting plate instead of a strap that I thought would bite enough on the wood runners to secure the panel. Wrong. I had to add some 3/8" fender washers to add some overlap in the key areas. With the plate tightened up to the extension rings the panels were sandwiched tight against the wall. I gave them a stress test and they are solid.



Then it was pretty much a typical fixture install. The first one was a bitch, but after I found out what was involved the rest weren't too bad.



Here is how the room shaped up. Pretty slick for a DIY job.







So what was the end result sound wise. Well, I can't really show you with fancy words or adjectives but boy can I measure! grin

The RT60 times are now great. I think I am done with adding any absorbtion in the room. I think I will leave the 1ft bass traps in the front corners alone as well. Good enough I figure.

Here is the 1/3 Octave RT60 graph. The program doesn't give screencaps in this module, so a pic has to suffice. I test RT60 with a balloon pop at the front loudspeaker locations and measure at the MLP. Absorber panels are magic!



Here is the new frequency response of the main loudspeakers with subs. 1/12 octave resolution pink noise averaged over 30 seconds. 1/3 octave measurements look pretty flat now, with a bump into the bass territory. I could tame this by cutting the sub output, but I perceive it as sounding just right where it is. Not too much and not too little. As a note, the sound power of the room\system was reduced by 2db with the install of the panels. I had to increase the AVR's volume governor to reach a 75db test level.




The front wall QRD diffuser and rear media shelf remain.... The saga continues!

Re: Lets plan a theater space
AAAA #414694 09/27/15 05:55 PM
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Your implementation of the wall panels looks really nice and add to the esthetics of the room, well done sir. After reading about Nick's experience with absorption I knew I had to try it and I know exactly what you are saying, they perform wonders. I don't know if there is any money in building and designing rooms but you definitely have a knack for it, perhaps a business venture even. Now you can start enjoying that room , you have only a few days left until your deadline, so get to work grin


DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
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